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Airtime 2.5.2 RC1
  • Hey guys,

    We're happy to announce that we're posting up a release candidate for Airtime 2.5.2!




    Why a release candidate?

    One of the major changes in this release is a completely overhauled installation process; we're still in the process of ensuring that it works smoothly, both out-of-the-box and on top of existing Airtime installations. Many users will be familiar with some of the difficulties surrounding the existing Airtime install process - we want to make sure that we're not just repeating history with 2.5.2.


    What's new in 2.5.2?

    This isn't quite the official 2.5.2 release, as there are still a few things that need to be tested out in the wild, but here's a list of some of the bugfixes coming in 2.5.2 for scale: Airtime 2.5.2 bugfixes

    We've also added multiple new API endpoints!

    We'll be posting a full breakdown with the complete changelog once we're happy with the state of 2.5.2 and can push it out as a full release.


    What's new in the installation process?

    From an end-user perspective, the main differences will be the new web setup, and a more interactive installation script.

    The base installer (now located in the Airtime root directory) runs interactively by default, and installs the key components of Airtime - all the necessary binaries, services, permissions, and configuration are accounted for here.

    The web setup wizard, which you'll be guided through the first time you run the new installer, generates your airtime.conf file, which is now an amalgamation of several configuration files from 2.5.1.

    The basics are also covered in the README and the install --help. 


    Is there a deb package?

    Not yet. We're working towards getting out a deb package for 2.5.2, hopefully alongside the full release.


    New APIs?

    There will be several new API endpoints in 2.5.2, namely /live-info-v2 and /station-metadata (officially!), /show-history-feed, /item-history-feed, /show-tracks, /show-schedules, and /shows.


    What Linux Distributions are currently supported?

    We've tested Ubuntu 14.04 (Trusty Tahr) and Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin), and have included basic requirements files for those releases as well as Debian Wheezy and Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy Salamander). If you are running a different Linux distribution, let us know of any packages you needed to install to get Airtime up and running, or any issues you run into during installation, and we'll make a requirements file for your release.


    Known Issues

    - The current vhost file is specific to Apache 2.4. If you're running Apache 2.2, you'll need to remove "Require All Granted" from the Apache vhost file
    - The current Airtime status page and config-check pages are sometimes overly optimistic when reporting the statuses of Airtime processes
    - Opus is not supported on Ubuntu 14.04 due to this bug - installing liquidsoap-plugin-opus will break Ogg Vorbis support


    2.5.2 is stable (as far as we can tell), so feel free to get started with it now! 

    Let us know about any issues you run into, and we'll be able to roll out the full release that much sooner.

    Thanks,
    The Airtime Team
    Post edited by Duncan Sommerville at 2015-01-19 17:08:43
  • 34 Comments sorted by
  • Vote Up2Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    and about our old and always not integrated requests ?

    - jingles integration
    - backup playlist
    - voicetrack

    some news ?
  • Vote Up2Vote Down hoerichhoerich
    Posts: 627Member, Airtime Moderator
    Although I agree with Albert's missing requests, I wanna say thanks for the RC-info, Duncan & team!
    Will give you feedback, asap.

    For the rest of this discussion or the forum overall...

    ... there was once a time, I enjoyed digging through this forum and interacting with other users.
    Meanwhile it's just a pain being flooded by so many useless, ridicilious & off-topic comments.

    Nowadays I'm more interested in a new forum-feature than having airtime-request...
    And I'm gonna ask this in puclic on purpose:
    Is there a chance to hide comments of several users?

    I don't get any of VOISSES TECH's comments!
    No matter what you try to say VOISSES, you fail!

    Please, dear sofab-team, give us the ability to hide this crap without a meaning!

    I was about to ask for this internally, but I it's no mystery that I'm tired of VOISSES' bullshit postings and meanwhile I don't care about any netiquette.

    cheers
    Official Airtime Forum Manager
    --------------------------
    Most of the time an issue is located between keyboard and chair.
  • Vote Up1Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    "@Albert FR
    - The things you've listed and others are definitely on our radar, but
    not implemented in this release. Our current focus is to fix existing
    functionality that we know to be broken before moving on to new feature
    development. Once we're happy with the state of the existing featureset,
    we'll lay things out and see what features deserve to be at the top of
    the backlog."

    Hello Duncan,
    it's been over a year that these options are requested by the community ...
    this is also more than a year there has been no update Airtime.
    I must admit I am a bit surprised !
    We basically still the same
    Airtime and apparently nothing was done around from this period ...
  • Vote Up1Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    Hi Alvaro G. an John Chewter
    I know, we can do that approximatively with liquidsoap hacks (and I do that on my installations)
    but a real integration will be great for all of us !
  • Is this available in the repositories?

    I reinstalled a machine Sunday  January 18th,2014 at 14:30 Est and it was 2.5.1.6

    VOISSES
    Anyone reading this a find it funny about my grammar , I make no apology ,Go get a translator.
    "The Problem with education today is that it takes a university degree to switch on a light bulb"
    "You learn from your mistakes but wise people learn from others mistakes avoid Making mistakes there is not sufficient rooms to make them"
    "Innuendo","If's","Assumptions" and "Fear" are for politician.Who,What,where,When and How are for those seeking knowledge and care about Humanity.
    "I might be in Mud but that does not Make me a Wild Hog(pig)"
    “Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.”
    "The only thing that remains constant is change itself"
    May the force be with you,until our path or destiny bring us in tandem.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert SantoniAlbert Santoni
    Posts: 68Member, Sourcefabric Team, Airtime Moderator
    No, we don't have a DEB package for this yet.
    The source code for RC is from our 2.5.x-installer branch. This will be merged to 2.5.x within the next week or two hopefully.
    Post edited by Albert Santoni at 2015-01-19 17:10:47
    Airtime Developer @ Sourcefabric
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert SantoniAlbert Santoni
    Posts: 68Member, Sourcefabric Team, Airtime Moderator

    Did silan issue fixed at ubuntu 14.04, as reported here https://forum.sourcefabric.org/discussion/16893/help-airtime-cut-the-end-of-the-song-/p1 ?



    Probably not, as media-monitor has been almost untouched for a year. That said, we've recently found a similar bug affecting our use of silan in Ubuntu 14.04 and if we fix that in airtime_analyzer, we'll backport that fix to media-monitor. 
    Airtime Developer @ Sourcefabric
  • What is the new "sudo airtime-check-system" command ? cause that doesn't work anymore?
    Post edited by Steven C Mathewson at 2015-01-24 01:48:08
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert SantoniAlbert Santoni
    Posts: 68Member, Sourcefabric Team, Airtime Moderator
    Hi Steven,

    airtime-check-system has been removed and that information is now displayed inside Airtime, under System->Status.

    Thanks,
    Albert
    Airtime Developer @ Sourcefabric
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    I'm agree with you on this point Voisses ;-)
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert SantoniAlbert Santoni
    Posts: 68Member, Sourcefabric Team, Airtime Moderator
    Hi guys,

    If you want to check on the status of Airtime services from the command-line, Upstart already provides this functionality:
    sudo service airtime-playout status 
    sudo service airtime-liquidsoap status
    sudo service airtime-media-monitor status

    Having a wrapper around these commands was not that useful, and was generally confusing because it didn't give you any troubleshooting suggestions. The functionality of airtime-check-system is also integrated into the last step of the web application installer wizard, which is a much better place for that to live. (Whether or not the services are running correctly is something you want to find out during the installation process. That said, you're still free to check System->Status inside Airtime if you're tinkering with your Airtime setup manually after installation. If you break Airtime yourself, airtime-check-status wasn't going to help you fix it anyways.)

    Thanks,
    Albert

    Airtime Developer @ Sourcefabric
  • It's true that the check utilities provided handy command line all-in-ones to view service statuses, but at the end of the day, that's all they were. System status checks backed by hundreds of lines of unnecessary code.


    We figured that issues that didn't cause Airtime to crash could be made simpler to troubleshoot by providing an accessible and more obvious interface from within the client, and issues that took the client down entirely would, as always, be best remedied by searching through the Airtime and Apache logs.


    For those who want to tinker with Airtime, familiarity with those log files will be a necessity, and the check utilities weren't providing any information you couldn't already deduce from a one-line command.


    The aim of the new status check is to provide an overview of the statuses of Airtime's essential components, and list potential fixes. It's not perfect, but before casting aspersions please try out the 2.5.2 RC in order to objectively weigh the pros and cons, as we've done.

    @Albert FR - The things you've listed and others are definitely on our radar, but not implemented in this release. Our current focus is to fix existing functionality that we know to be broken before moving on to new feature development. Once we're happy with the state of the existing featureset, we'll lay things out and see what features deserve to be at the top of the backlog.


    Cheers,
    Duncan

    Post edited by Duncan Sommerville at 2015-01-26 22:24:10
  • @Duncan_Sommerville

    "I am annoying ! isn't that true?".I rule with my head not my heart.I am logical not loved.

    You did make the same mistake I just said.

    Plainly some time you do not have access to any client and who have the time to parse through a bunch of logs. Buff you need something right off the bat.

    Please note there has always been a status page.(is this a mod)

    Proof of concept

    https://forum.sourcefabric.org/discussion/comment/31090#Comment_31090

    look at the ways I instruct the person how to even place a browser on an headless server

    OK so that was luck. Type in the search field 404  and look.
    Every Time a distro or Application like apache  change you will be chasing your tail.
    https://forum.sourcefabric.org/discussion/16803/attention-airtime-upgrade-is-broken-not-exactly-/p1

    Airtime (sourcefabric) team has a bad habit to even implement changes and as soon as you apt-get upgrades,your whole system shut down.
    https://forum.sourcefabric.org/discussion/16091/fallover-101-how-to-make-all-scripts-worked-revisted-pt2-advance-reduce-effects-of-upgrade-brok

    Sometimes it ache me why people try to prove me wrong.I leave it to time

    please try out the 2.5.2 RC in order to objectively weigh the pros and cons, as we've done.
    Why?
    I am a coward tell me fire will burn and never expect me to go test it
    I will not taste if you say its poison and I have confident in you,The PR on these changes is week (oops weak)

    I hate to learn from my mistakes,I fixed them,I like to learn from others mistakes.

    So what the Heck

    I will sit here on my stool ,get my keg ready and you can watch the movie http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080179/ to see

    Cause I will be enjoying implementation

    I end here sic
    They Are coming,i can Hear them
    VOISSES


    Anyone reading this a find it funny about my grammar , I make no apology ,Go get a translator.
    "The Problem with education today is that it takes a university degree to switch on a light bulb"
    "You learn from your mistakes but wise people learn from others mistakes avoid Making mistakes there is not sufficient rooms to make them"
    "Innuendo","If's","Assumptions" and "Fear" are for politician.Who,What,where,When and How are for those seeking knowledge and care about Humanity.
    "I might be in Mud but that does not Make me a Wild Hog(pig)"
    “Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.”
    "The only thing that remains constant is change itself"
    May the force be with you,until our path or destiny bring us in tandem.
  • Hello,

    I don't understand all yours messages.... 

    So I would like a only one answer: is it possible to make a update with the regular

    "apt-get update" and "apt-get upgrade" on the serveur ?

    Thank you 

    best regard
    Patrick
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    lol Patrick
    please read and not comment for nothing...

    Le contexte de ces discutions n'est pas du tout celui là, mais les problèmatiques d'évolutions de ce logiciel
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert SantoniAlbert Santoni
    Posts: 68Member, Sourcefabric Team, Airtime Moderator

    Hello,


    I don't understand all yours messages.... 

    So I would like a only one answer: is it possible to make a update with the regular

    "apt-get update" and "apt-get upgrade" on the serveur ?

    Thank you 

    best regard
    Patrick


    Hi Patrick,

    The answer is "not yet", but soon (hopefully before the official 2.5.2 release). We are working on this...

    Thanks,
    Albert
    Airtime Developer @ Sourcefabric
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    For information :
    liquidsoap is not present for ubuntu trusty installations (into the repository)
  • @AlbertFr;
    It was there .Yes indeed. I have a "conspiracy theory"

    Somebody had a brilliant idea to removed the custom built  and compile version of liquidsoap and use the standard repo version. ( remember those 404 errror and liquidsoap disconnect)

    It started to shatter every thing,break here and there cause there have not a redone of the notification scripts.

    I know the thoughts of many now "Lets get rid of Liquidsoap from Airtime"
     
    Please read what i say about Leadership and Management

    Our Geese or "ulterior posterior " is cooked

    Use What You have!

    =)) =)) =))

    VOISSES

    ps.Ulterior is synonymous of "Bare"
        Posterior  is to "Rare"
    Post edited by Voisses Tech at 2015-01-30 10:54:07
    Anyone reading this a find it funny about my grammar , I make no apology ,Go get a translator.
    "The Problem with education today is that it takes a university degree to switch on a light bulb"
    "You learn from your mistakes but wise people learn from others mistakes avoid Making mistakes there is not sufficient rooms to make them"
    "Innuendo","If's","Assumptions" and "Fear" are for politician.Who,What,where,When and How are for those seeking knowledge and care about Humanity.
    "I might be in Mud but that does not Make me a Wild Hog(pig)"
    “Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.”
    "The only thing that remains constant is change itself"
    May the force be with you,until our path or destiny bring us in tandem.
  • Albert FR said:

    and about our old and always not integrated requests ?

    - jingles integration
    - backup playlist
    - voicetrack

    some news ?



    Oh my, Jingles and time signals. I'd LOVE that. Meanwhile I have to resort to a liquidsoap hack... :P :D
  • I just had an idea for that.... Thanks Alvaro!
    No longer using Airtime or Libretime.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    Any News from 2.5.2 ?
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Daniel JamesDaniel James
    Posts: 844Member, Sourcefabric Team
    Hi Albert, we have a bunch of new fixes in the 2.5.x-installer branch, I have uploaded a test package to http://apt.sourcefabric.org/misc/airtime_2.5.2/ (that is not ready for production use). More fixes are required to integrate the new installer, which is a big improvement, with debconf.

    Cheers!

    Daniel
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    Cool,

    I've tried it
    One thing to add into debconf (to overwrite or not)
    ls_script.liq (some of us have made change to this file... cause of missing features of airtime)
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    And always a problem with liquidsoap (who is not on the sourcefabric repository for ubuntu 14.04) on ubuntu 14.04... with the 2.5.2 from today
  • Albert FR said:

    Cool,

    I've tried it
    One thing to add into debconf (to overwrite or not)
    ls_script.liq (some of us have made change to this file... cause of missing features of airtime)



    Good idea. It should ask if you want to use the current configuration or use the one shipped with the installer. 
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Daniel JamesDaniel James
    Posts: 844Member, Sourcefabric Team
    Albert FR said:

    One thing to add into debconf (to overwrite or not) ls_script.liq (some of us have made change to this file... cause of missing features of airtime)



    It should ask if you want to use the current configuration or use the one shipped with the installer. 



    We can do this with the file debian/conffiles, which marks files so that users are prompted on upgrade. I'll give it a try in the next package:

    https://github.com/Airtime/airtime-packaging/commit/f3bf7c736e826b3d7216adb81c81da290da74385

    Please note that in 2.5.2 the installation paths have changed, so what was:

    python_apps/pypo/liquidsoap_scripts/ls_script.liq


    is now:

    python_apps/pypo/liquidsoap/ls_script.liq


    I would recommend that you make a full backup of any custom changes before migrating from 2.5.1. You will also need to update your custom script for changes that are introduced by Airtime, to avoid diverging too far. See the history of this file in the 2.5.x-installer branch here:

    https://github.com/sourcefabric/Airtime/commits/2.5.x-installer/python_apps/pypo/liquidsoap/ls_script.liq

    Cheers!

    Daniel
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    and about liquidsoap-sfo for 14.04 ?
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Daniel JamesDaniel James
    Posts: 844Member, Sourcefabric Team
    Albert FR said:

    and about liquidsoap-sfo for 14.04 ?



    Hi Albert, I have this filed as https://dev.sourcefabric.org/browse/CC-5960 so it will not be forgotten.

    Cheers!

    Daniel




  • I installed Airtime 2.5.2 RC1 and am trying to restore a database from 2.5.1.

    This is a clean install that mimics the older installation (songs in the same directories)

    sudo ./install -foip
    then go to ip address and finish installation.
    clear blank default database
    sudo -u postgres dropdb airtime
    then restore backedup database
    sudo -u postgres psql -f databasename

    then I log in and the stream plays out to a shoutcast server ok,
    but the top section of airtime doesn't show the clock or what's playing

    It
    would seem like some kind of database issue and it seems related to the
    installation process / and restoring the database from 2.5.1
    Can anyone suggest a solution?

    I
    have tried to restore the backed up database without dropping the
    default database and this keeps the top bar info but none of the songs
    will load in only the shows.

    steven
    (posted this elsewhere, but got no response, so reposted this here)
  • Some fields have been added to 2.5.2 so nobody is surprised I guess.
    No longer using Airtime or Libretime.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    2.5.2 available soon ?
    no more errors on Jira...
  • Hi Steven,


    airtime-check-system has been removed and that information is now displayed inside Airtime, under System->Status.

    Thanks,
    Albert


    WHAT !!!!
    show me,show me Him
    The One Guilty of such Decision
    Ok calm down,Take a breath, breath slowly fis....so...bar?

    Now My friendly people Linux is a command line troubleshooting concept.

    I said That before 9:04 and they never listened,they came with the bright Software center crap.
    Let me say it here again

    Administrator and technican needs to look at the source.Its like your car dash board engine lights on to tell you something is wrong but now there is this little computer spitting out codes to indicate what's wrong

    What about when you have no access to the Airtime Interface?

    What about when you install on a server?

    Wow who is up there making these error?

    This is like the Intel RC410 board errors where you have to install a keyboard before it Post.
    The brilliant person did not think about embedded device which needs to boot by themselves
    Ok Let me  a call to Donald Trump


    Me speaking " Hello Mr Trump Please.......................................................?"

    Mr Trump on the line

    Me Speaking " Mr. Trump, sorry to bother you but  did your secretary update you on what they are doing over Airtime Sourcefabric?"
     

    Mr. Trump instructions "You are fired"

    People come on settle down you all going "Whack -A-Mole Ly"


    VOISSES










     


    Post edited by Voisses Tech at 2015-01-26 11:20:37
    Anyone reading this a find it funny about my grammar , I make no apology ,Go get a translator.
    "The Problem with education today is that it takes a university degree to switch on a light bulb"
    "You learn from your mistakes but wise people learn from others mistakes avoid Making mistakes there is not sufficient rooms to make them"
    "Innuendo","If's","Assumptions" and "Fear" are for politician.Who,What,where,When and How are for those seeking knowledge and care about Humanity.
    "I might be in Mud but that does not Make me a Wild Hog(pig)"
    “Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.”
    "The only thing that remains constant is change itself"
    May the force be with you,until our path or destiny bring us in tandem.
  • @Albert_Santoni
    I hope you will take this as an opinion.That is all  this post is meant to be.No one should read words or imply info what I have not said.

    I am 100% confused.I stared at the screen and shook my head.I had to read it over and over and as myself

    "Just do as the Boss(ie.The Team who made that decision) said accept the change and move along"

    No I am not that person,I have a whole lot of characteristic and personalities and one is "Opinionated"

    All you said is based on the wrong premises so lets start.

    1. If you break Airtime yourself,  - I want to break it,I want a tool not a toy.I want to customized it my way,This is the purpose of open source.This is the reason computer is exploding.Tell me what Google makes that you cannot break yourself.well just a few core things.They even pay you to break anything they build..I do not want a ready-made solution and blah...blah...blah.
    2. airtime-check-status wasn't going to help you fix it anyways. - Do not expect it to,I am going to fixed it based on the info Here are the key features url- used to established the virtual hosting and port status,the os - when I see debian I provided limited suggestions and leave it to people like @Roger_Wilco and @John_Chewter to give insights,you can search many post like this https://forum.sourcefabric.org/discussion/16893/help-airtime-cut-the-end-of-the-song-/p1 ,I could recommend the LTS and  @Roger_Wilco et-al could say its a silan issue.It also tells if the person is running on a virtual machine.Some where in this Thread I even found out that the person was using less than the recommend machine and the individual concede,he was just testing on a very old spare machine and there are other info important to me the technician to determine.
    3. The functionality of airtime-check-system is also integrated into the last step of the web application installer wizard, which is a much better place for that to live. That's like the Yes-Yes-OK button,not even me look at that,I just want to see the Okay at the End.That is why I install all my machine as localhost,to get that smiling -- Your installation of Airtime looks OK!,Then I break it changing the host,ports,the directory etc.Are We to expect that Moving forward Airtime will include all the possibilities?
    4. Having a wrapper around these commands was not that useful, and was generally confusing because it didn't give you any troubleshooting suggestions - baloney,I address that above.My car diagnostic doesn't tell you what to fixed and if  there is an error the last line recommend a FAQ wiki but this wiki has either being watered down or disappear.Have you ever get a Windoze technical call.and the customer said "well the troubleshoot say so and so,I did it all and it did not work?' or the gibberish on a bluescreen.I am wondering if Airtime will be giving "Blue Screen" soon!
    5. Whether or not the services are running correctly is something you want to find out during the installation process. - No but its useful when the interface is not coming up
    So finally,Listen to us Please.Listen to the Forum,the moderators and the various users, who come here for suggestion and be explicit in your  answers
    Look at these two senarios

    SCENARIO 1
    Question :-</b> What is the new "sudo airtime-check-system" command ? cause that doesn't work anymore?

    Answer   :-</b> airtime-check-system has been removed and that information is now displayed inside Airtime, under System->Status.

    SCENARIO 2

    Question :- What is the new "sudo airtime-check-system" command ? cause that doesn't work anymore?

    Answer   :- airtime-check-system has been removed  as there are duplicate functions which does the same thing and that information is now also displayed inside Airtime, under System->Status.
    other functions like sudo service airtime-playout status,sudo service airtime-liquidsoap status........

    I was once asked "What is difference between Management and Leadership?" to which I replied

    "Management is when you are given something or a task you demolish it and make a new one that suits you therefore it only last for a time.Leadership is where you take something or a task and make it into a beauty which last a lifetime?
    Management is a dream,Leadership is a vision.?"

    Please

    VOISSES





     
    Post edited by Voisses Tech at 2015-01-26 21:46:18
    Anyone reading this a find it funny about my grammar , I make no apology ,Go get a translator.
    "The Problem with education today is that it takes a university degree to switch on a light bulb"
    "You learn from your mistakes but wise people learn from others mistakes avoid Making mistakes there is not sufficient rooms to make them"
    "Innuendo","If's","Assumptions" and "Fear" are for politician.Who,What,where,When and How are for those seeking knowledge and care about Humanity.
    "I might be in Mud but that does not Make me a Wild Hog(pig)"
    “Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.”
    "The only thing that remains constant is change itself"
    May the force be with you,until our path or destiny bring us in tandem.