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finished with airtime
  • if you think about it, airtime is just a web interface to a text editor.  i can easily sit here and create playlists with only a text editor, and get the same results as airtime.

    the devs need to take a long look at what they're doing.  because it sure seems like a waste of talent to make a php driven, postgres backed text editor.

    i'm only posting this because i'm very frustrated. i could have just read the liquidsoap docs and saved myself a lot of time.
  • 27 Comments sorted by
  • Hey Ashworth,

    I'd have to disagree with your conclusion. By your logic, all computers should be a terminal with a blinking cursor. 

    Sure there is more power when you go down into the deeper levels, but what works better for you does not necessarily work better for everyone else. We have all kinds of users with varying ranges of expertise, and some users have trouble installing a simple Debian package whereas others such as yourself feel more comfortable in the internals of a system.

    I'm not sure what your source of frustration with Airtime has been - we've been too busy to monitor the forums the last few days due to the imminent release of 2.4. Eitherway, if Airtime is not for you, then Liquidsoap is a great project and I'm sure you will be very happy with it.
    Airtime Pro Hosting: http://airtime.pro
  • Vote Up2Vote Down hoerichhoerich
    Posts: 627Member, Airtime Moderator

    But is not everything database driven just a text editor interface? What, in my opinior, seperates Airtime from all others is the ease of use and the ability to manage remotely, via a web interface. The biggest advantage is that it is free and still being developed. Having to modify individual text files and individually query an asset for the metadata would take a hugh amount of time.

    +1

    All I can say is that if you have a good calendar-strategy, it's wonderfull to work with.
    Seems like Mr. Ashworth Payne is missing a feature called "Copy Shows" or similar.
    Ashworth, you got four options now:
    1. leave Airtime behind you
    2. go to the bug-tracker dev.sourcefabric.org, vote for appropriate tickets and wait
    2. co-develop features with the sourcefabric-community and contribute your efforts
    3. donate money

    These are just missing features you are talking about.
    But if it doesn't suit your needs or you think it's crap, just don't use it.
    You said, you spent a lot of money on this project, so you should have a few bucks left for a proprietary application or donating.

    Although it's a little more work now (until Copy-Show-Feature) to fill the shows,
    Airtime is reliable and our Programm Coordinator and I can sleep like a baby since implemented.

    Thanks for the good work, Team & Comm!
    Official Airtime Forum Manager
    --------------------------
    Most of the time an issue is located between keyboard and chair.
  • Vote Up1Vote Down radioa6radioa6
    Posts: 57Member
    Loads of time and effort goes into Airtime, you can see how its improving every version. I have been using the software for almost two years now and have seen it progress every single time. The developers listen to the community and give free support to everyone that needs it. I can only be gratefull for that.

    Ofc the product is still growing. A lot of bugs have been fix, interface has been improved dramaticly and many other things changed. Im almost a the point now at which i can throw out my own liquidsoap script ( which im only using for scheduled jingles/ sweepers / add atm )

    You can have youre frustrations about things not going as you want them, but its another thing to have a tantrum for not getting them. If you give it time im sure youre problems will be adressed, but bashing a thing you can use totally free is just plain ignorant.

    The developers even had the curtisy to answer this post and to that i salute them. Keep up the good work guys ! 

    A fan
    Post edited by radioa6 at 2013-05-28 19:26:56
  • But is not everything database driven just a text editor interface? What, in my opinior, seperates Airtime from all others is the ease of use and the ability to manage remotely, via a web interface. The biggest advantage is that it is free and still being developed. Having to modify individual text files and individually query an asset for the metadata would take a hugh amount of time.
  • after trying to point/click my way to a proper 1-hour show, i had a stunning revelation.... extrapolate those efforts out over 24 hours... 7 days... one month... i realize that i just don't want to work that hard.  let the machines do the work. 

    automate.

    i tried to setup a playlist on silence.  i got it working.  but that caused the show sources to stop authenticating.  and metadata would flip-flop between no source and mp3 tags.

    i just dont find any value in a multi-user, multilibrary, multidependacied text editor that breaks so easily.

    i put a lot of time/money into getting this system up.  i wish i had just taught myself liquid soap.

  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    @hoerich "Bravo" for yours conclusions :-)

    I'm really agree with you

    Thank for the Team and Community people :D
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Micz FlorMicz Flor
    Posts: 184Administrator
    @hoerich: thanks for listing ways to engage besides "just" reporting feature requests :)

    @ashworth: if you are looking for a GUI for liquidsoap, I wonder how you ever came across Airtime.

    The benefit of Airtime is that DJs can concentrate on what they do best: make quality shows (and NOT learn liquidsoap). Airtime allows you to do this remotely, alone or in teams, across time zones, structure the days in shows, plan ahead, grant access to people for specific shows, upload content from remote to the station, stream live to your Airtime station, schedule playlists, autorecord live shows and reschedule them automatically etc.

    Airtime was made for those projects, stations, events, where "select all, shuffle and repeat" just isn't enough. If all you need is a "select all, shuffle and repeat" radio stream, you can have that easier without Airtime, obviously.
  • @ Micz to some extent I have to agree with Ashworth. I want to be totally in love with Airtime but so far it has been way to much work. Someone else said the same thing on LinkedIn and I furiously defended Airtime, but at that time my station was not fully up and running. Now that it is I see what the commenter meant.

    Having to add content for every show daily added to the fact that everyday (like right now) Airtime is failing daily makes running my station extremely laborious. I go to sleep with my station streaming and wake up the next morning to find out my station has gone down some time during the night.

    I am trying to stick with it and I do realize and appreciate the time and effort everyone puts into developing and even supporting Airtime here on the forums but at the same time if you are trying to run a professional station Airtime, at least so far for me, is not getting the job done.

    Please don't suggest going Airtime Pro as the solution either. I feel about that the same way I felt about Blog Talk Radio, If I don't like the free version why in the world would I pay for it?

    As you can tell I am quite frustrated. My station has not even been on air a month yet and most of the time I have a "down for maintenance" message up.
  • Micz, brother, for a mere $50/mo, groups can stream HD video to an unlimited number of viewers via at least two premium streaming providers in the USA. If ya'll made video support a top priority and figured out a way to seriously compete against these guys... only good things could happen.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Andrey PodshivalovAndrey Podshivalov
    Posts: 1,526Member, Administrator, Sourcefabric Team
    $50 for unlimited video streaming. It looks like a joke.
  • Regarding Lisa's bug -  she can verify I've been working with her privately to find why her stream goes offline. This is a tricky bug since so far only 3 users have complained about it, and it happens across different OS'es.

    Bug has been filed against Liquidsoap here:

    At the moment it seems there is something specific about the system environment which I've been trying to track down. Our hosted service (and most self hosted installations) do not exhibit this problem.
    Airtime Pro Hosting: http://airtime.pro
  • Hi Martin,

    Please don't think that I am not appreciative, I will openly admit that you have gone far above and beyond to help get this thing figured out. It is just frustrating for me that I am having to deal with this. I restarted my stream this morning at about 9:30 am, come back home and check around 3:30pm and it's down again : (
    I would be the one to get the mystery bug, that has always been my luck : (
  • There's a COPY SHOWS feature? Where is it and how does it work? If it does what I'm hoping it does THAT would be a lifesaver!
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    normally for the 2.5
    we all wait for it since few months ;-)
  • @Micz

    i wanted airtime to handle scheduling and authentication for DJ's.  my DJ's don't make playlists. they mix live using multiple decks and their own equipment.

    playlists are for backup when nothing else is happening.  if a DJ can't connect to his timeslot the machine should, by default, broadcast music in a predetermined format (station id, random songs, sweepers, random songs). i don't know when a DJ can't make his/her show... or when he/she is a few minutes late/early.  and i'm not going to run to the computer to build a last-minute playlist every time a dj has a scheduling problem.  i need the playout sever to have fall-back. 

    as i've said, i've tried to get random music on silence but as soon as it starts to work other parts of airtime break.  it seems like this feature should have been included in airtime from the very beginning. 

    airtime devs are good.  they just don't understand what a stations need. one thing is for sure: no station ever needs silence to be broadcast.  its best to go off air. never ever broadcast silence.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down hoerichhoerich
    Posts: 627Member, Airtime Moderator


    airtime devs are good.  they just don't understand what a stations need. one thing is for sure: no station ever needs silence to be broadcast.  its best to go off air. never ever broadcast silence.

    That's not true.
    Just go for the bug tracker dev.sourcefabric.org to see what's on the roadmap.
    The problem is that almost every radio station has his own needs.

    We drive a terrestrial Station with Airtime and we need Multiple-Local-Input-Functionality but we don't need webstream-functionality. We don't care of broadcasted silence, because we have a Hardware-Silence-Detector-Switch. Also, silence can trigger something...

    To come to the point:
    The devs are already working on a Fallback-Feature for v2.5 i think. http://dev.sourcefabric.org/browse/CC-1945
    So why do you say, they don't understand what a station needs? You know the Bug-Tracker?
    Seems like everything implemented yet has just been more important or easier to implement than fallback.
    Official Airtime Forum Manager
    --------------------------
    Most of the time an issue is located between keyboard and chair.
  • so its been 4 days with liquidsoap and here is what i have so far...

    by default, ls plays random songs from a directory of songs.  every 20 minutes it plays a random promo.

    my mixer has usb outs/in.  liquidsoap reads the usb, and if anything is coming from the mixer, it fades-out whatever random song is playing and brings the mixers output into the stream.  all i have to do is turn the master fader up or down to force a transition.
    when the master faders go down, liquidsoap automatically plays random station id, and then returns to random play from a directory.  this is a $140 8-ch mixer you can get from anywhere.  nothing fancy.

    at the top of my priority list is input from remote dj's.  if a dj connects, all other sources are faded out and control passes to the dj.  when the dj disconnects, a station id plays and then random music, with a random promo every 20 minutes.
    since some of my dj's use turntables, i had to enable meta updates via the telnet server. those of you who don't broadcast online (and those of you who do so illegally) probably don't care about meta, but those of us paying royalties must have meta in our stream.  so facilities for "old school" dj's is mandatory... one of my dj's has software that doesn't stream, but it does give meta in the window name... so i wrote a little app that scrapes the window name and sends it to the server... all automatically.  i almost didn't land that guy as a DJ because of the metadata problem. he's gooood.

    lastly, i setup the last.fm scrobbler in liquidsoap (kudos to the mailing list for help with that). all metadata is scrobbled.  this allows me to pull the songs from last.fm into my website... and it automatically includes album artwork.  i need to make a few changes to the site sources in order to add "buy now" links for itunes etc.

    i'm authenticating my dj's with sqlite... it took me all day to get that working.  i'm going to give them the ability to upload intro's and outro's for their shows.  if a dj wants to enable intro/outro he/she can... those options will be stored in the db. their time-slots will also be stored, so if someone wants to connect when they shouldn't: no auth... and they can't hold the stream hostage either.

    the last bit to my project is audio processing.  ladspa plugins allow for some nice processing on the stream.  multiband compression and limiting.  no need for other hardware. every dj sounds uniform.

    sorry if i sound like i'm bragging.  i'm really not.  i'm giving the devs a case-study from a real online broadcaster. hopefully they'll roll some of this into airtime.
  • Ashworth,

    Looks like you have the knowledge and ability to get exactly what you want.
    Kudos to that, and that is what open-source is all-about. Airtime will
    probably never take full-advantage of every Liquidsoap feature, because
    then you may as well make the UI a developer console. However for many
    users, it fits the use case quite nicely and is constantly improving in the
    direction users want it.


    On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 1:05 AM, Ashworth Payne <<br />airtime-support@lists.sourcefabric.org> wrote:

    > so its been 4 days with liquidsoap and here is what i have so far...
    >
    > by default, ls plays random songs from a directory of songs. every 20
    > minutes it plays a random promo.
    >
    > my mixer has usb outs/in. liquidsoap reads the usb, and if anything is
    > coming from the mixer, it fades-out whatever random song is playing and
    > brings the mixers output into the stream. all i have to do is turn the
    > master fader up or down to force a transition.
    > when the master faders go down, liquidsoap automatically plays random
    > station id, and then returns to random play from a directory. this is a
    > $140 8-ch mixer you can get from anywhere. nothing fancy.
    >
    > at the top of my priority list is input from remote dj's. if a dj
    > connects, all other sources are faded out and control passes to the dj.
    > when the dj disconnects, a station id plays and then random music, with a
    > random promo every 20 minutes.
    > since some of my dj's use turntables, i had to enable meta updates via the
    > telnet server. those of you who don't broadcast online (and those of you
    > who do so illegally) probably don't care about meta, but those of us paying
    > royalties must have meta in our stream. so facilities for "old school"
    > dj's is mandatory... one of my dj's has software that doesn't stream, but
    > it does give meta in the window name... so i wrote a little app that
    > scrapes the window name and sends it to the server... all automatically. i
    > almost didn't land that guy as a DJ because of the metadata problem. he's
    > gooood.
    >
    > lastly, i setup the last.fm scrobbler in liquidsoap (kudos to the mailing
    > list for help with that). all metadata is scrobbled. this allows me to
    > pull the songs from last.fm into my website... and it automatically
    > includes album artwork. i need to make a few changes to the site sources
    > in order to add "buy now" links for itunes etc.
    >
    > i'm authenticating my dj's with sqlite... it took me all day to get that
    > working. i'm going to give them the ability to upload intro's and outro's
    > for their shows. if a dj wants to enable intro/outro he/she can... those
    > options will be stored in the db. their time-slots will also be stored, so
    > if someone wants to connect when they shouldn't: no auth... and they can't
    > hold the stream hostage either.
    >
    > the last bit to my project is audio processing. ladspa plugins allow for
    > some nice processing on the stream. multiband compression and limiting.
    > no need for other hardware. every dj sounds uniform.
    >
    > sorry if i sound like i'm bragging. i'm really not. i'm giving the devs
    > a case-study from a real online broadcaster. hopefully they'll roll some of
    > this into airtime.
    >
    >
    Airtime Pro Hosting: http://airtime.pro
  • People who get angry about a FREE piece of software have no one to blame but themselves

    From personal experience the guys working on Airtime are diligent and have even rooted into my test server to address some NAS issues we were having early on

    I've been running it solid for over a year and all is good

    What little problems we had were addressed




  • Bob.  I'm not angry.  Airtime just doesn't (didn't) suit my needs.  And without feedback, the devs would never know why the product-of-their-efforts go unused.

    Criticism is actually healthy.  If I were calling them a bunch of dung-beetles: this would be a whole other matter.

    But I digress. As it happens, I have a new DJ coming on board who wants to make playlists on his lunchbreaks and have the show run during his timeslot (in other words: he has a regular job AND doesn't want to go live). So, I'm going to setup Airtime to act as a remote DJ for my script.  He can build his shows using the great GUI and allow the awesome scheduler to do the rest.

    In this scenario, airtime fits.  So, its win/win.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    in this case, try rivendell
    it's for radio station only (you can use it for webradio, but it's a hack...)

    http://www.rivendellaudio.org/
  • Vote Up0Vote Down hoerichhoerich
    Posts: 627Member, Airtime Moderator
    I also tried rivendell ... now I am here ;-)
    Official Airtime Forum Manager
    --------------------------
    Most of the time an issue is located between keyboard and chair.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    @hoerich ;-)
  • Recovering MegaSeg user chiming in.

    In sunny Macland, we have this media framework called Quicktime and it's pretty powerful stuff. Playing music in iT or QT itself barely uses a tiny fraction of a modern intel chip. Just a couple %. Interestingly enough it was like that waaaay back in the powerpc dark ages, too.

    It's audio, folks. This beast was conquered many moons ago.

    Yet as of Snow Leopard, old Segs merrily gobbled up close to a third of an 8+ghz processor. Sometimes half! Even with all the bells and whistles turned OFF.

    That's when I had to give it up and move on.

    Truth is, some folks get it, and some just don't.

    And don't even get me started on the massive UI design fail that is Radiologik.  8-|
  • well one thing is certain: airtime is VERY focused on online broadcasting
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Albert FRAlbert FR
    Posts: 1,978Member, Airtime Moderator
    for the moment that exactly true, but with the next version (2.6) that will be change a little ;-)
  • Maybe people will move from airtime then.

    I think Airtime development team should put these beta out for testers and people to make contribution

    They always seems to keep everything under secret and then bam,you upgrade and are stunned.

    I am a big supporter of Airtime

    but these approach will have you move.

    It what's affecting Ubuntu cause people t move to distro like Mint
    its what has destroyed Windows

    Its wrong wrong wrong,wrong,wrong.

    Its what's broiling my blood.

    I used campster when it was first out but as it became plague with security issues i moved to Rivendell.

    So a warning

    You cannot change the login interface without even emailing forum people.

    I took almost a week before I login.

    I like changes but Let me warn even more, people cannot just change in the mid of the night.

    What about stations who already have done so much


    But Made I am Cranky,So ignore my stupid advice

    Anyone reading this a find it funny about my grammar , I make no apology ,Go get a translator.
    "The Problem with education today is that it takes a university degree to switch on a light bulb"
    "You learn from your mistakes but wise people learn from others mistakes avoid Making mistakes there is not sufficient rooms to make them"
    "Innuendo","If's","Assumptions" and "Fear" are for politician.Who,What,where,When and How are for those seeking knowledge and care about Humanity.
    "I might be in Mud but that does not Make me a Wild Hog(pig)"
    “Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.”
    "The only thing that remains constant is change itself"
    May the force be with you,until our path or destiny bring us in tandem.