[campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the new development platform - Newscoop Development Discussions on Sourcefabric Forum

import

Dear All,

Summercamp is coming up (16-18 August 2004), bigger and better than ever
Wink

, and we need to structure it well in order to produce tangible results
within three days.

This year, I would ask everybody to prepare their
contributions/presentations ahead of time and post (or even pre-discuss)
them on this list.

To keep our communication tidy, in this mail, I will only deal with the
central issue of Summercamp 2004: The new PHP development platform.

The context:

We have already decided on PHP, and recently we have decided that if we are
going to move to a higher-level platform, we should base it on a CMF
instead of a CMS, because

A. most CMS's are not built for the type of application we are creating -
the one to drive a news publication, and

B. keeping synchronized with the a CMS may be difficult since they are
usually not as modular in design as CMFs. A CMF is designed so that the
underlying libraries can be updated without harming existing applications
that run on top of it. If a CMS meets these needs we will certainly
consider it

Thus we would like see presentations / arguments on:

1. The existing PHP content management frameworks, such as Midgard
(actually the only one we know of, so please submit your PHP CMF of choice
to this list). We need one volunteer for each CMF.

2. Arguments why we should not use one and build the new Campsite using
some lower-level building blocks such as Pear (I already see Micz's name
next to that volunteer slot Wink

.

3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there (Mambo,
Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own risk, that we
should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own development, this is
the category to apply for. Expect to lose the argument, but good devil's
advocates will be appreciated Wink

Looking forward to your contributions,

Sava

------------------------------------------
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import

> A. most CMS's are not built for the type of application we are
> creating - the one to drive a news publication, and

It could be useful to declare the main differences between other CMS's
and the application we'd like to create. To see, where is the
difference only in name ('article' versus 'news') and where is the
difference in some functionality ('issues').

Nenad

------------------------------------------
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import

The main problem we need to deal with is branching from the intended
goals of the current developers of any given CMS.

import

> Thus we would like see presentations / arguments on:
>
> 1. The existing PHP content management frameworks, such as Midgard
> (actually the only one we know of, so please submit your PHP CMF of
> choice to this list). We need one volunteer for each CMF.
>
> 2. Arguments why we should not use one and build the new Campsite
> using some lower-level building blocks such as Pear (I already see
> Micz's name next to that volunteer slot Wink

.
>
> 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
> (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
> risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own
> development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to lose the
> argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated Wink

I would add number 4 here.

4. If we'll develop our own solution why we should be compatible with
the plugins of some famous CMS's with hundred plugins already there.

Nenad

------------------------------------------
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import

There is a CMF that I haven't heard mentioned on this list so far I
think, might be worth a look. It's all based on PEAR I believe, so that
might be good, eh, Micz?

https://sourceforge.net/projects/seagull/

Also, Typo3 has been recommended to me. Very modular, apparently.
PHP/MySQL. Stacks of documentation. Has nice 'in-page editing' feature
which was intriguing.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/typo3/

JP

------------------------------------------
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import

That's exactly what you will tell us Wink

Nenad Pandzic
z> cc:
Subject: Re: [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the new
07/16/04 05:32 development platform
PM
Please respond
to campsite-dev

Actually, 'why' is obvious. The question is how?

Nenad

On Friday 16 of July 2004 17:05, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
> Agreed, that will be your presentation Wink

>
> Sava
>
>
>
> Nenad Pandzic
> > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
> Subject: Re:
> [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the new
> 07/16/04 05:03 development platform PM
> Please respond
> to campsite-dev
>
> > Thus we would like see presentations / arguments on:
> >
> > 1. The existing PHP content management frameworks, such as Midgard
> > (actually the only one we know of, so please submit your PHP CMF of
> > choice to this list). We need one volunteer for each CMF.
> >
> > 2. Arguments why we should not use one and build the new Campsite
> > using some lower-level building blocks such as Pear (I already see
> > Micz's name next to that volunteer slot Wink

.
> >
> > 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
> > (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
> > risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own
> > development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to lose the
> > argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated Wink

>
> I would add number 4 here.
>
> 4. If we'll develop our own solution why we should be compatible with
> the plugins of some famous CMS's with hundred plugins already there.
>
> Nenad

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

Actually, who cares about plugins? Smile

On Friday 16 of July 2004 17:34, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
> That's exactly what you will tell us Wink

>
>
>
> Nenad Pandzic
> > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
> Subject: Re:
> [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the new
> 07/16/04 05:32 development platform PM
> Please respond
> to campsite-dev
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Actually, 'why' is obvious. The question is how?
>
> Nenad
>
> On Friday 16 of July 2004 17:05, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
> > Agreed, that will be your presentation Wink

> >
> > Sava
> >
> >
> >
> > Nenad Pandzic
> > > > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
> > Subject: Re:
> > [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the
> > new 07/16/04 05:03 development platform PM
> > Please respond
> > to campsite-dev
> >
> > > Thus we would like see presentations / arguments on:
> > >
> > > 1. The existing PHP content management frameworks, such as
> > > Midgard (actually the only one we know of, so please submit your
> > > PHP CMF of choice to this list). We need one volunteer for each
> > > CMF.
> > >
> > > 2. Arguments why we should not use one and build the new Campsite
> > > using some lower-level building blocks such as Pear (I already
> > > see Micz's name next to that volunteer slot Wink

.
> > >
> > > 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
> > > (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
> > > risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our
> > > own development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to
> > > lose the argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated
> > > Wink

> >
> > I would add number 4 here.
> >
> > 4. If we'll develop our own solution why we should be compatible
> > with the plugins of some famous CMS's with hundred plugins already
> > there.
> >
> > Nenad

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

> 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
> (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
> risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own
> development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to lose the
> argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated Wink

To be honest, there is no risk for the volunteer. The main reason
against this would be proud. I agree, it's hard to find stronger
argument, so I won't be volunteer (I'm the proud member of developer
team). Smile

Nenad

------------------------------------------
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import

I do, so I kindly ask you to present that part at Summercamp 2004.

Sava

Nenad Pandzic
z> cc:
Subject: Re: [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the new
07/16/04 05:42 development platform
PM
Please respond
to campsite-dev

Actually, who cares about plugins? Smile

On Friday 16 of July 2004 17:34, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
> That's exactly what you will tell us Wink

>
>
>
> Nenad Pandzic
> > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
> Subject: Re:
> [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the new
> 07/16/04 05:32 development platform PM
> Please respond
> to campsite-dev
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Actually, 'why' is obvious. The question is how?
>
> Nenad
>
> On Friday 16 of July 2004 17:05, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
> > Agreed, that will be your presentation Wink

> >
> > Sava
> >
> >
> >
> > Nenad Pandzic
> > > > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
> > Subject: Re:
> > [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the
> > new 07/16/04 05:03 development platform PM
> > Please respond
> > to campsite-dev
> >
> > > Thus we would like see presentations / arguments on:
> > >
> > > 1. The existing PHP content management frameworks, such as
> > > Midgard (actually the only one we know of, so please submit your
> > > PHP CMF of choice to this list). We need one volunteer for each
> > > CMF.
> > >
> > > 2. Arguments why we should not use one and build the new Campsite
> > > using some lower-level building blocks such as Pear (I already
> > > see Micz's name next to that volunteer slot Wink

.
> > >
> > > 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
> > > (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
> > > risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our
> > > own development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to
> > > lose the argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated
> > > Wink

> >
> > I would add number 4 here.
> >
> > 4. If we'll develop our own solution why we should be compatible
> > with the plugins of some famous CMS's with hundred plugins already
> > there.
> >
> > Nenad

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

That was a joke. I know you care. And I care. We'll see.

Nenad

On Friday 16 of July 2004 18:02, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
> I do, so I kindly ask you to present that part at Summercamp 2004.
>
> Sava
>
>
>
> Nenad Pandzic
> > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
> Subject: Re:
> [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the new
> 07/16/04 05:42 development platform PM
> Please respond
> to campsite-dev
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Actually, who cares about plugins? Smile

>
> On Friday 16 of July 2004 17:34, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
> > That's exactly what you will tell us Wink

> >
> >
> >
> > Nenad Pandzic
> > > > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
> > Subject: Re:
> > [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the
> > new 07/16/04 05:32 development platform PM
> > Please respond
> > to campsite-dev
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Actually, 'why' is obvious. The question is how?
> >
> > Nenad
> >
> > On Friday 16 of July 2004 17:05, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
> > > Agreed, that will be your presentation Wink

> > >
> > > Sava
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Nenad Pandzic
> > > > > > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
> > > Subject: Re:
> > > [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the
> > > new 07/16/04 05:03 development platform PM
> > > Please respond
> > > to campsite-dev
> > >
> > > > Thus we would like see presentations / arguments on:
> > > >
> > > > 1. The existing PHP content management frameworks, such as
> > > > Midgard (actually the only one we know of, so please submit
> > > > your PHP CMF of choice to this list). We need one volunteer for
> > > > each CMF.
> > > >
> > > > 2. Arguments why we should not use one and build the new
> > > > Campsite using some lower-level building blocks such as Pear (I
> > > > already see Micz's name next to that volunteer slot Wink

.
> > > >
> > > > 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out
> > > > there (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at
> > > > his own risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing
> > > > with our own development, this is the category to apply for.
> > > > Expect to lose the argument, but good devil's advocates will be
> > > > appreciated Wink

> > >
> > > I would add number 4 here.
> > >
> > > 4. If we'll develop our own solution why we should be compatible
> > > with the plugins of some famous CMS's with hundred plugins
> > > already there.
> > >
> > > Nenad

------------------------------------------
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import

At 17:42 16.07.2004, you wrote:
>who cares about plugins? Smile

i think that would be the key to any possible future of our CSCMF

Micz Flor - micz@mi.cz

content and media development http://mi.cz
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.campware.org -- http://crash.mi.cz -- http://sue.mi.cz
"I really don't see your problem." (Akos Maroy)
-----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------
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import

bad English:

.....against this would be the proudness......

On Friday 16 of July 2004 18:02, Nenad Pandzic wrote:
> > 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
> > (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
> > risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own
> > development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to lose the
> > argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated Wink

>
> To be honest, there is no risk for the volunteer. The main reason
> against this would be proud. I agree, it's hard to find stronger
> argument, so I won't be volunteer (I'm the proud member of developer
> team). Smile

>
> Nenad

------------------------------------------
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import

I think you mean "pride". Smile

Nenad Pandzic wrote:

bad English:



.....against this would be the proudness......





On Friday 16 of July 2004 18:02, Nenad Pandzic wrote:

3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there

(Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own

risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own

development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to lose the

argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated

To be honest, there is no risk for the volunteer. The main reason

against this would be proud. I agree, it's hard to find stronger

argument, so I won't be volunteer (I'm the proud member of developer

team). 



Nenad

------------------------------------------
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import

Yes, something beginning with 'pr'..... Smile

On Friday 16 of July 2004 18:42, Paul Baranowski wrote:
> I think you mean "pride". Smile

>
> Nenad Pandzic wrote:
>
> bad English:
>
> .....against this would be the proudness......
>
>
> On Friday 16 of July 2004 18:02, Nenad Pandzic wrote:
>
>
> 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
> (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
> risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own
> development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to lose the
> argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated Wink

>
>
> To be honest, there is no risk for the volunteer. The main reason
> against this would be proud. I agree, it's hard to find stronger
> argument, so I won't be volunteer (I'm the proud member of developer
> team). Smile

>
> Nenad

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

> > 1. The existing PHP content management frameworks, such as Midgard
> > (actually the only one we know of, so please submit your PHP CMF of
> > choice to this list). We need one volunteer for each CMF.
Here is a list of CMFs:

http://www.oscom.org/matrix/index.html

CMFs written in PHP are:

- Krysalis Foundation - LGPL (http://www.interaktonline.com/products/Krysalis/)
- Midgard - LGPL (http://www.midgard-project.org/)
- Xaraya - GPL (http://www.xaraya.com/)

I would like to study Krysalis Foundation; anybody volunteering for Midgard and
Xaraya?

Mugur

> > 2. Arguments why we should not use one and build the new Campsite
> > using some lower-level building blocks such as Pear (I already see
> > Micz's name next to that volunteer slot Wink

.
> >
> > 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
> > (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
> > risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own
> > development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to lose the
> > argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated Wink

>
> I would add number 4 here.
>
> 4. If we'll develop our own solution why we should be compatible with
> the plugins of some famous CMS's with hundred plugins already there.
>
> Nenad
>
>

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