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Power Users know the Calendar/Scheduler has issues. Want to help fix it?
  • It is a fact. I am not even going to list the whole long list here.

    Have you been told to wipe the show database and start again? And the crap came back?

    But: Show Content goes missing, shows terminate unexpectedly, Shows show different data in week view than month view....... AND different again in 'Now Playing' view (which is always correct) CLUE. Look at the seconds.

    This is Open Source. We can bitch about or fix it. How about we fork and/or fix it or replace it?

    I am a hard-core coder. If we had a few more we could fix it in a couple of weeks, I reckon, or a lot less.

    Any Python/PHP/POSTGRES coders with an IQ in double figues? Want to help fix this?

    Don't do Postgres but do do MySQL? Close enough.

    Cant code? Great! Got Calendar issues? You can help - we need testers.

    Who is up for this? Please form an orderly queue. Thank you.
    Post edited by John Chewter at 2014-05-29 22:22:58
    No longer using Airtime or Libretime.
  • 16 Comments sorted by
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Alex LAlex L
    Posts: 33Member
    I am not skilled at coding (though I once hacked a bit of C to make caller ID appear correct on an open source phone system due to knowing what the UK analogue signalling way); I can gather evidence/logs etc if shown what to look for.

    fork of the whole lot seems drastic (presumably would use liquidsoap anyway for the actual playout) but perhaps a slimmed down user interface/db which is aimed at those normally running a mixture of pre-recorded shows with the occasional live remote, which can handle working with local time zone (the telephone exchange software I use does) with these main enhancements:

    • definitely fades a show on the hour
    • can play jingles/ads at exact times overriding all other content if selected
    • generates report log on everything that played and also what went wrong (if anything) that is easy to find
    I do like the airtime userinterface but have concerns it uses a lot of server resources especially when the same server is dealing with transcoding real time audio.

    Having looked more closely at the team behind these (and other) project I feel they are spread too thin and out of necessity their resources are focused on the newsroom and book stuff (as that is slightly easier to monetise than radio); but with both news (of any media) and books the content is split into shorter pieces.

    airtime (and many other playout programs) seem aimed at student stations and community stations in countries lucky enough to have funding for these or an idealised version of such, with and a lot of tech aware staff who haven't been forced into necessity of other daytime employment. It works well for these as if the program output goes silent there is often someone who can fix it, even at random hours.

    Maybe a "lite" version aimed at longer shows/content ads that can also could co-exist with another instance of airtime on a separate PC (for those with studios) is a good idea? That way any enhancements can be fed back to liquidsoap (part of the same project? I noticed it on the bugtracker) and if you do have a studio and mixer its good practice to have backup playout anyway..

    Post edited by Alex L at 2014-05-31 06:00:22
    Alex The Engineer @ rtn VFRmedia - Ipswich, UK
    http://www.vfrmedia.co.uk
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Alex LAlex L
    Posts: 33Member
    This weekend I experimented with using Zara Radio's events (on the free version) - this PC was generating analogue audio and sending a live stream to a Liquidsoap server in Germany (that transcodes this 192k MP3 stream to 128k and 96k AAC-LC). The French update-title software on Windows was used to update metadata to the master stream. Everything worked perfectly, no time drift, correct changeovers etc.

    I also took the opportunity to inspect the .lst files that Zara uses for playlist, and the .evt file for events.

    Both are very simple - the .lst file is plain text with the first field containing a number (that appears to be the length of the file in seconds), followed by the path to the MP3 or WAV file on the Windows network.

    The .evt file is a mixture of text and binary data, containing the date and time each event happens, and some other flags (as to whether the event repeats, its priority etc).

    For those stations which are using a less "busy" format surely something like this feeding Liquidsoap is all that is needed? And maybe a "slimmer", more basic web interface, or even a different way of connecting like ssh and one of the "smart" terminal protocols. As good as the web interface is; I've always been a bit nervous about it being exposed to the whole Internet, as its going to be hammered by all sorts of people (which will also increase the load on the server).

    Something that could even work on a 10 year old PC, or a Raspberry PI, and the hardware hidden in the CTA (Central Technical Area) rack, or the roofspace of a house (like my Asterisk telephone exchange), and is made harder for "studio monkeys" to upset in any form.

    The same could also be used for community stations with studios and mixers, for playing the business-critical content such as station IDs, adverts and the like, and could co-exist with the current Airtime project, especially if Liquidsoap is interlinked anyway.



    Alex The Engineer @ rtn VFRmedia - Ipswich, UK
    http://www.vfrmedia.co.uk
  • Alex - thats pretty much the same as the show table in Airtime - except its in a database not a file. Airtime keeps calculating different track length times for the same track. A few seconds here or there. Why?. I am getting more and more convinced that his is where one of the problems lie.
    Post edited by John Chewter at 2014-06-02 08:28:43
    No longer using Airtime or Libretime.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Daniel JamesDaniel James
    Posts: 844Member, Sourcefabric Team
    Hi John, as I recall, the file duration is read from the tag metadata, which is typically inaccurate. Then Silan does a proper analysis of the file and sets cue points for leading and trailing silence. That could explain why you are seeing the reported duration change.

    Cheers!

    Daniel
  • Yes I had thought that. But why, if you add the same file to 3 different shows with different jingles, in sucession, does one get different times and the last few seconds of the podcast chopped off?
    I think its rounding errors
    Post edited by John Chewter at 2014-06-02 10:21:04
    No longer using Airtime or Libretime.
  • Hmm watched folders are not really watched any more - one has to manually update them now. Maybe I forget to do that. Watching a watched folder is surely a prime requiset? The note from the responsible dev said 'Not necessary and uses to much resource - manual updating is enough - removing'.
    I am going to recode that back in and see what happens.
    No longer using Airtime or Libretime.
  • If 3rd parties upload into the watched folders.. e.g. DJs or an automatic import, the system has no idea that it has happened - or does it?
    No longer using Airtime or Libretime.
  • Each Time I read This Post I am dying with Laughter.
    1. It seems construed out of frustration
    2. Whilst I am so stupid most of these question seems answered,and some can be found in the proposed changes,or noted bug tracker
    3. It seems to asking for supports on one hand,on a next it seems to be asking to form a team to punish Airtime for not adhering to the things need to be done "NOW" on the next it just a rehash of matters brought up in other posts
    4. It starts on the wrong foot,by asking for IQs etc.WoW sounds like a resume.
    5. Read On and you will see why I am dying in Laughter.

    So Here goes me and my mouth now.

    As I explain in many post is that you have to see,Airtime as a tool to enhance your Radio Station,just like any equipment you bought,not the ones to replace.

    I explain in a previous post to integrate Airtime with

    • your MIXXX/DJ Decks   for your DJs
    • Broadcast Console/Media Players/Mixers/Playouts  For your Main Station Desk
    • Your Music Editors/Studio Desk    - Music Editing
    • Full Back-end  or Secondary Playout (Mainly For Remote Station)

    Now for those who cannot see the Picture here is an old one found here. It need some updating as it refers to the previous,but the picture and concept is almost the same.

    Now  for people reading @ALex L  post above.

    • Places like Non-Profits,Schools and Some Category of Community Radio Stations do not need the features you refered to.There would be no advantage in ZaroRadio better than using a Media Player like Itunes,Winamp etc.In fact There are thousands which do so.
    • If you run Commercials and Adverts,You should look at commerical softwares, or If you used free software look to tweak it to Your standard.(there are many in the forum)
    • Airtime have Many more features than liquidsoap only offers,and if you read most of the developers of liquidsoap suggestions,They give you the basic,You can become imaginative 
    • Airtime is More Dynamic than its cores,There are constant added features and bugfixes with more room for customisation
    • You could achieve what you suggest with ZaroRadio with Darkice,Ices,Winamp,Ezstream,Butt,Nicecast and on and on
    • Zaro radio do have events,missed and drift times especially with webstreams
    • Zaro radio  which is recommende to only install on windows XP . Both are no longer supported

    But why am telling You all this

    Everytime  I read a Question in the forum,I am looking at

    • How Can I help
    • How Can I implement that contributor  thread or Post

    These are my focus.Its what help me to Fixed many of the Problems I have.

    1. Take for instance I had an Issue with radical changes  with Airtime,I made my Voice Heard on the issue.
    2. There is a problem with Webstreams and Malformed Downloads especially when it comes to Airtime.,I have tested the Latest Ls and most stream and Audio i had problem with i solved them.
    3. I am now looking at recompiling the Airtime LS and see If I can narrow the problem

    So Here I go laughing.

    better to do Good

    and

    Do no Harm

    VOISSES






    Anyone reading this a find it funny about my grammar , I make no apology ,Go get a translator.
    "The Problem with education today is that it takes a university degree to switch on a light bulb"
    "You learn from your mistakes but wise people learn from others mistakes avoid Making mistakes there is not sufficient rooms to make them"
    "Innuendo","If's","Assumptions" and "Fear" are for politician.Who,What,where,When and How are for those seeking knowledge and care about Humanity.
    "I might be in Mud but that does not Make me a Wild Hog(pig)"
    “Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.”
    "The only thing that remains constant is change itself"
    May the force be with you,until our path or destiny bring us in tandem.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Alex LAlex L
    Posts: 33Member

    If 3rd parties upload into the watched folders.. e.g. DJs or an automatic import, the system has no idea that it has happened - or does it?

    On the 2.5.1 version I had there was one show I would often wget from the command line into a local directory called ~/ingest and I had that watched.

    The user interface would show "file import in progress" and then it would appear in the library. I was not even aware manual update (or maybe that was being triggered by other shows being uploaded via the Web Interface (which I do more often now both my home and work have VDSL broadband)

    I also hadn't looked at the timings in milliseconds or noticed these changed, It may simply be that something has been coded to be "too clever" in using these when accuracy of a second is all that is needed for radio broadcasting, with playout synchronised to the main transmission centre clock, this being the civil time of wherever that may be (which may or may not have daylight saving time), and that when the next event comes up on scheduling, anything else there is immediately faded out.
    Alex The Engineer @ rtn VFRmedia - Ipswich, UK
    http://www.vfrmedia.co.uk
  • Firstly let me say that Albert S has made huge strides in fixing up the
    system that he inherited. Thank you very very much Albert, Denise,
    Naomi, Daniel and the others. 2.5.1 was a great step forward.

    Voises please stop sneering and be civil. Just for your information, and not that it is any of your business, I do not use Airtime to 'enhance', as you put it, my radio station. It IS my radio station. I am allowed to use it like this. It is designed to work like this. The manual says it should work like this. I know you use and recommend Rivendell for your main playout system to Airtime, so you avoid most of this. Please continue laughing. I am still laughing at your comments - so it seems fair.

    Alex L and I (and several others) have the same issues. Unlike the bedroom music stations, we have a great many tracks that can be several hours long. Most of the problems that Alex L and I find would go unnoticed on short music tracks with fade out finishes. I find that tracks over-run or under-run, show contents disappear, double playout (I found out why that happenned and can avoid it), track times can sometimes be different in the week and month views, for the same track in the same show. No amount of your sneering will make that go away, Voisses. Some coding might.

    Alex L and I would like AT to work unattended, in the way the manual describes, and I am prepared to put the hours/weeks in to help.

    The 'Now Playing' view DOES accurately describe what will actually playout. However on many occasions that does not agree with the 'Month View' or 'Week View', so I have to rely on the 'Now Playing' view.

    As I have been waiting a long time for these bugs to be resolved, and this is open source, then it seems the prudent course for me to do less bitching and more fixing of bugs myself. This I have done with some success already, but there is more to do.

    No longer using Airtime or Libretime.
  • Some good news. Some of the above issues have aready been fixed and are in the forthcoming 2.5.2
    No longer using Airtime or Libretime.
  • Now that's what I am talking about.

    The fixes  are suggested for 2.5.2 as you indicated.

    I had no intent but to recognised that there are issues,maybe not specific to me,but to others.and if I said it in a way that may look mean,then let me clarify ,that was not my intention.

    I even realised that the original post was amended.

    I still maintain,Open source are the greatest thing since competition was declare the way forward.

    The Restrictions place on proprietary software  of "Take it or leave it" does not apply to Opensource, on the contrary its more "Take it and break it"

    Therefore to advocate use of any standalone with another software ,is not clever in a forum like Airtime.

    No matter what I used,I do not advocate others to use anything else but to integrate Airtime with it .

    I have people testing Airtime with other playouts,like Amarok, MiXXX and ICDJ on linux,.

    In Windows the Variety is extensive too many to mention here.

    Just to put a long story Short.

    My mouth is not my own. I eat too much jalapeno when people seem to "diss" Airtime ,which is a software I think is  very outstanding.

    So as I look at the many persons now using Airtime found here http://www.sourcefabric.org/en/airtime/whosusing/, I feel proud to contribute in my little way

    Good Luck

    Voisses

    Ps. Do not take me too serious.





     

    Anyone reading this a find it funny about my grammar , I make no apology ,Go get a translator.
    "The Problem with education today is that it takes a university degree to switch on a light bulb"
    "You learn from your mistakes but wise people learn from others mistakes avoid Making mistakes there is not sufficient rooms to make them"
    "Innuendo","If's","Assumptions" and "Fear" are for politician.Who,What,where,When and How are for those seeking knowledge and care about Humanity.
    "I might be in Mud but that does not Make me a Wild Hog(pig)"
    “Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.”
    "The only thing that remains constant is change itself"
    May the force be with you,until our path or destiny bring us in tandem.
  • Now that's what I am talking about.

    The fixes  are suggested for 2.5.2 as you indicated.

    I had no intent but to recognised that there are issues,maybe not specific to me,but to others.and if I said it in a way that may look mean,then let me clarify ,that was not my intention.

    I even realised that the original post was amended.

    I still maintain,Open source are the greatest thing since competition was declare the way forward.

    The Restrictions place on proprietary software  of "Take it or leave it" does not apply to Opensource, on the contrary its more "Take it and break it"

    Therefore to advocate use of any standalone with another software ,is not clever in a forum like Airtime.

    No matter what I used,I do not advocate others to use anything else but to integrate Airtime with it .

    I have people testing Airtime with other playouts,like Amarok, MiXXX and ICDJ on linux,.

    In Windows the Variety is extensive too many to mention here.

    Just to put a long story Short.

    My mouth is not my own. I eat too much jalapeno when people seem to "diss" Airtime ,which is a software I think is  very outstanding.

    So as I look at the many persons now using Airtime found here http://www.sourcefabric.org/en/airtime/whosusing/, I feel proud to contribute in my little way

    Good Luck

    Voisses

    Ps. Do not take me too serious.





     

    Anyone reading this a find it funny about my grammar , I make no apology ,Go get a translator.
    "The Problem with education today is that it takes a university degree to switch on a light bulb"
    "You learn from your mistakes but wise people learn from others mistakes avoid Making mistakes there is not sufficient rooms to make them"
    "Innuendo","If's","Assumptions" and "Fear" are for politician.Who,What,where,When and How are for those seeking knowledge and care about Humanity.
    "I might be in Mud but that does not Make me a Wild Hog(pig)"
    “Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.”
    "The only thing that remains constant is change itself"
    May the force be with you,until our path or destiny bring us in tandem.
  • You have no idea what is being done behind the scenes here to add to the 2.5.2 fixes and expansions. It is quite a lot.
    No longer using Airtime or Libretime.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down Alex LAlex L
    Posts: 33Member
    so is it possible to get 2.5.2 as release candidate and if so how? With the Asterisk telephone exchange, this has to be done quite often for us Europeans who connect it to analogue telephone lines as the bulk of their devs are based in USA and are now aware that tech standards for analogue lines (often delivering important signals like Caller ID or that the distant caller has cleared) vary across countries and even within them (as the PTT is privatised everywhere).

    To be fair Voisses schema is a useful one, but does still require a fair bit of tech knowledge as well as a station having the staff/volunteeers to fill all that content. Today most EU community stations and many small commercial stations are struggling to exist as it is. Bear in mind that the big broadcasters constantly lobby the Communications Ministry to force the same rules and conditions on smaller stations or its "unfair competition", in any case if a station transmits a signal to the airwaves as well as online streaming sending an identifier at least every 15-30 minutes is an international legal requirment.

    Airtime is good when it works. So is Liquidsoap, which is heavily integrated with it. (A parallel in telecoms is Asterisk and FreePBX).

    Online broadcasting is simply a "long one way phone call" with higher audio quality, and therefore should be equally robust. An older version was used by an officer of the British Communications Ministry, Ofcom, in a test of small scale local DAB broadcasting; however he wasn't allowed to advertise his "radio station" other than as an experiment or the big stations could accuse him of corruption; and could not officially endorse the use of the software, in any case more than one audio source was sent from different places including test tones, birdsong etc.

    These folk were the same ones who would try and close me and my friends down if we were running pirates. nowadays they actively encourage us to work with community stations and even to monitor analogue transmission on radio scanner and shortwave, something that you once could get nicked for, as they themselves fear important tech knowledge in broadcasting is being lost as well as a decline in quality of the content; alas, this is also because anyone with such tech knowledge can earn a full time salary twice that of a junior broadcast engineer simply working in IT & telecoms infrastructure support and development for a medium size business. Even the young people don't always have time to volunteer for live broadcasting, but can often record a mix at the weekend for later broadcast. Many of the EDM (dance music) stations have switched from "live DJ" format to pre-recorded shows, and it is people like us (older tech engineers aged 30/40 and above) who keep the online stations and community stations running as a hobby; but we have other more important things to do during day jobs and can't stay awake all night to monitor playout. Thus any "radio automation" should work well.
    Alex The Engineer @ rtn VFRmedia - Ipswich, UK
    http://www.vfrmedia.co.uk
  • No its not possible to get 2.5.2 yet its not yet ready and assembled, but I dont think it will be very long. For example I have some code to supply to them etc.

    No longer using Airtime or Libretime.