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[campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the new development platform
  • Dear All,

    Summercamp is coming up (16-18 August 2004), bigger and better than ever
    Wink, and we need to structure it well in order to produce tangible results
    within three days.

    This year, I would ask everybody to prepare their
    contributions/presentations ahead of time and post (or even pre-discuss)
    them on this list.

    To keep our communication tidy, in this mail, I will only deal with the
    central issue of Summercamp 2004: The new PHP development platform.

    The context:

    We have already decided on PHP, and recently we have decided that if we are
    going to move to a higher-level platform, we should base it on a CMF
    instead of a CMS, because

    A. most CMS's are not built for the type of application we are creating -
    the one to drive a news publication, and

    B. keeping synchronized with the a CMS may be difficult since they are
    usually not as modular in design as CMFs. A CMF is designed so that the
    underlying libraries can be updated without harming existing applications
    that run on top of it. If a CMS meets these needs we will certainly
    consider it

    Thus we would like see presentations / arguments on:

    1. The existing PHP content management frameworks, such as Midgard
    (actually the only one we know of, so please submit your PHP CMF of choice
    to this list). We need one volunteer for each CMF.

    2. Arguments why we should not use one and build the new Campsite using
    some lower-level building blocks such as Pear (I already see Micz's name
    next to that volunteer slot Wink.

    3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there (Mambo,
    Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own risk, that we
    should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own development, this is
    the category to apply for. Expect to lose the argument, but good devil's
    advocates will be appreciated Wink

    Looking forward to your contributions,

    Sava

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  • 14 Comments sorted by
  • > A. most CMS's are not built for the type of application we are
    > creating - the one to drive a news publication, and

    It could be useful to declare the main differences between other CMS's
    and the application we'd like to create. To see, where is the
    difference only in name ('article' versus 'news') and where is the
    difference in some functionality ('issues').

    Nenad

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  • The main problem we need to deal with is branching from the intended
    goals of the current developers of any given CMS.
  • > Thus we would like see presentations / arguments on:
    >
    > 1. The existing PHP content management frameworks, such as Midgard
    > (actually the only one we know of, so please submit your PHP CMF of
    > choice to this list). We need one volunteer for each CMF.
    >
    > 2. Arguments why we should not use one and build the new Campsite
    > using some lower-level building blocks such as Pear (I already see
    > Micz's name next to that volunteer slot Wink.
    >
    > 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
    > (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
    > risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own
    > development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to lose the
    > argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated Wink

    I would add number 4 here.

    4. If we'll develop our own solution why we should be compatible with
    the plugins of some famous CMS's with hundred plugins already there.

    Nenad

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  • There is a CMF that I haven't heard mentioned on this list so far I
    think, might be worth a look. It's all based on PEAR I believe, so that
    might be good, eh, Micz?

    https://sourceforge.net/projects/seagull/

    Also, Typo3 has been recommended to me. Very modular, apparently.
    PHP/MySQL. Stacks of documentation. Has nice 'in-page editing' feature
    which was intriguing.

    https://sourceforge.net/projects/typo3/

    JP

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  • That's exactly what you will tell us Wink



    Nenad Pandzic
    z> cc:
    Subject: Re: [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the new
    07/16/04 05:32 development platform
    PM
    Please respond
    to campsite-dev






    Actually, 'why' is obvious. The question is how?

    Nenad


    On Friday 16 of July 2004 17:05, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
    > Agreed, that will be your presentation Wink
    >
    > Sava
    >
    >
    >
    > Nenad Pandzic
    > > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
    > Subject: Re:
    > [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the new
    > 07/16/04 05:03 development platform PM
    > Please respond
    > to campsite-dev
    >
    > > Thus we would like see presentations / arguments on:
    > >
    > > 1. The existing PHP content management frameworks, such as Midgard
    > > (actually the only one we know of, so please submit your PHP CMF of
    > > choice to this list). We need one volunteer for each CMF.
    > >
    > > 2. Arguments why we should not use one and build the new Campsite
    > > using some lower-level building blocks such as Pear (I already see
    > > Micz's name next to that volunteer slot Wink.
    > >
    > > 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
    > > (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
    > > risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own
    > > development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to lose the
    > > argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated Wink
    >
    > I would add number 4 here.
    >
    > 4. If we'll develop our own solution why we should be compatible with
    > the plugins of some famous CMS's with hundred plugins already there.
    >
    > Nenad

    ------------------------------------------
    Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
  • Actually, who cares about plugins? Smile

    On Friday 16 of July 2004 17:34, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
    > That's exactly what you will tell us Wink
    >
    >
    >
    > Nenad Pandzic
    > > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
    > Subject: Re:
    > [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the new
    > 07/16/04 05:32 development platform PM
    > Please respond
    > to campsite-dev
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Actually, 'why' is obvious. The question is how?
    >
    > Nenad
    >
    > On Friday 16 of July 2004 17:05, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
    > > Agreed, that will be your presentation Wink
    > >
    > > Sava
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Nenad Pandzic
    > > > > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
    > > Subject: Re:
    > > [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the
    > > new 07/16/04 05:03 development platform PM
    > > Please respond
    > > to campsite-dev
    > >
    > > > Thus we would like see presentations / arguments on:
    > > >
    > > > 1. The existing PHP content management frameworks, such as
    > > > Midgard (actually the only one we know of, so please submit your
    > > > PHP CMF of choice to this list). We need one volunteer for each
    > > > CMF.
    > > >
    > > > 2. Arguments why we should not use one and build the new Campsite
    > > > using some lower-level building blocks such as Pear (I already
    > > > see Micz's name next to that volunteer slot Wink.
    > > >
    > > > 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
    > > > (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
    > > > risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our
    > > > own development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to
    > > > lose the argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated
    > > > Wink
    > >
    > > I would add number 4 here.
    > >
    > > 4. If we'll develop our own solution why we should be compatible
    > > with the plugins of some famous CMS's with hundred plugins already
    > > there.
    > >
    > > Nenad

    ------------------------------------------
    Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
  • > 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
    > (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
    > risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own
    > development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to lose the
    > argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated Wink

    To be honest, there is no risk for the volunteer. The main reason
    against this would be proud. I agree, it's hard to find stronger
    argument, so I won't be volunteer (I'm the proud member of developer
    team). Smile

    Nenad

    ------------------------------------------
    Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
  • I do, so I kindly ask you to present that part at Summercamp 2004.

    Sava



    Nenad Pandzic
    z> cc:
    Subject: Re: [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the new
    07/16/04 05:42 development platform
    PM
    Please respond
    to campsite-dev






    Actually, who cares about plugins? Smile

    On Friday 16 of July 2004 17:34, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
    > That's exactly what you will tell us Wink
    >
    >
    >
    > Nenad Pandzic
    > > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
    > Subject: Re:
    > [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the new
    > 07/16/04 05:32 development platform PM
    > Please respond
    > to campsite-dev
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Actually, 'why' is obvious. The question is how?
    >
    > Nenad
    >
    > On Friday 16 of July 2004 17:05, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
    > > Agreed, that will be your presentation Wink
    > >
    > > Sava
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Nenad Pandzic
    > > > > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
    > > Subject: Re:
    > > [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the
    > > new 07/16/04 05:03 development platform PM
    > > Please respond
    > > to campsite-dev
    > >
    > > > Thus we would like see presentations / arguments on:
    > > >
    > > > 1. The existing PHP content management frameworks, such as
    > > > Midgard (actually the only one we know of, so please submit your
    > > > PHP CMF of choice to this list). We need one volunteer for each
    > > > CMF.
    > > >
    > > > 2. Arguments why we should not use one and build the new Campsite
    > > > using some lower-level building blocks such as Pear (I already
    > > > see Micz's name next to that volunteer slot Wink.
    > > >
    > > > 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
    > > > (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
    > > > risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our
    > > > own development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to
    > > > lose the argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated
    > > > Wink
    > >
    > > I would add number 4 here.
    > >
    > > 4. If we'll develop our own solution why we should be compatible
    > > with the plugins of some famous CMS's with hundred plugins already
    > > there.
    > >
    > > Nenad

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    Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
  • That was a joke. I know you care. And I care. We'll see.

    Nenad


    On Friday 16 of July 2004 18:02, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
    > I do, so I kindly ask you to present that part at Summercamp 2004.
    >
    > Sava
    >
    >
    >
    > Nenad Pandzic
    > > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
    > Subject: Re:
    > [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the new
    > 07/16/04 05:42 development platform PM
    > Please respond
    > to campsite-dev
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Actually, who cares about plugins? Smile
    >
    > On Friday 16 of July 2004 17:34, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
    > > That's exactly what you will tell us Wink
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Nenad Pandzic
    > > > > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
    > > Subject: Re:
    > > [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the
    > > new 07/16/04 05:32 development platform PM
    > > Please respond
    > > to campsite-dev
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Actually, 'why' is obvious. The question is how?
    > >
    > > Nenad
    > >
    > > On Friday 16 of July 2004 17:05, sava.tatic@mdlf.org wrote:
    > > > Agreed, that will be your presentation Wink
    > > >
    > > > Sava
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Nenad Pandzic
    > > > > > > campsite-dev@campware.org z> cc:
    > > > Subject: Re:
    > > > [campsite-dev] Summercamp 2004: research and presentations on the
    > > > new 07/16/04 05:03 development platform PM
    > > > Please respond
    > > > to campsite-dev
    > > >
    > > > > Thus we would like see presentations / arguments on:
    > > > >
    > > > > 1. The existing PHP content management frameworks, such as
    > > > > Midgard (actually the only one we know of, so please submit
    > > > > your PHP CMF of choice to this list). We need one volunteer for
    > > > > each CMF.
    > > > >
    > > > > 2. Arguments why we should not use one and build the new
    > > > > Campsite using some lower-level building blocks such as Pear (I
    > > > > already see Micz's name next to that volunteer slot Wink.
    > > > >
    > > > > 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out
    > > > > there (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at
    > > > > his own risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing
    > > > > with our own development, this is the category to apply for.
    > > > > Expect to lose the argument, but good devil's advocates will be
    > > > > appreciated Wink
    > > >
    > > > I would add number 4 here.
    > > >
    > > > 4. If we'll develop our own solution why we should be compatible
    > > > with the plugins of some famous CMS's with hundred plugins
    > > > already there.
    > > >
    > > > Nenad

    ------------------------------------------
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  • At 17:42 16.07.2004, you wrote:
    >who cares about plugins? Smile

    i think that would be the key to any possible future of our CSCMF

    Micz Flor - micz@mi.cz

    content and media development http://mi.cz
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.campware.org -- http://crash.mi.cz -- http://sue.mi.cz
    "I really don't see your problem." (Akos Maroy)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------------------
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  • bad English:

    .....against this would be the proudness......


    On Friday 16 of July 2004 18:02, Nenad Pandzic wrote:
    > > 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
    > > (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
    > > risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own
    > > development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to lose the
    > > argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated Wink
    >
    > To be honest, there is no risk for the volunteer. The main reason
    > against this would be proud. I agree, it's hard to find stronger
    > argument, so I won't be volunteer (I'm the proud member of developer
    > team). Smile
    >
    > Nenad

    ------------------------------------------
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  • I think you mean "pride". Smile



    Nenad Pandzic wrote:


    bad English:

    .....against this would be the proudness......


    On Friday 16 of July 2004 18:02, Nenad Pandzic wrote:



    3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
    (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
    risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own
    development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to lose the
    argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated Wink


    To be honest, there is no risk for the volunteer. The main reason
    against this would be proud. I agree, it's hard to find stronger
    argument, so I won't be volunteer (I'm the proud member of developer
    team). Smile

    Nenad








    ------------------------------------------
    Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
  • Yes, something beginning with 'pr'..... Smile

    On Friday 16 of July 2004 18:42, Paul Baranowski wrote:
    > I think you mean "pride". Smile
    >
    > Nenad Pandzic wrote:
    >
    > bad English:
    >
    > .....against this would be the proudness......
    >
    >
    > On Friday 16 of July 2004 18:02, Nenad Pandzic wrote:
    >
    >
    > 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
    > (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
    > risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own
    > development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to lose the
    > argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated Wink
    >
    >
    > To be honest, there is no risk for the volunteer. The main reason
    > against this would be proud. I agree, it's hard to find stronger
    > argument, so I won't be volunteer (I'm the proud member of developer
    > team). Smile
    >
    > Nenad

    ------------------------------------------
    Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
  • > > 1. The existing PHP content management frameworks, such as Midgard
    > > (actually the only one we know of, so please submit your PHP CMF of
    > > choice to this list). We need one volunteer for each CMF.
    Here is a list of CMFs:

    http://www.oscom.org/matrix/index.html

    CMFs written in PHP are:

    - Krysalis Foundation - LGPL (http://www.interaktonline.com/products/Krysalis/)
    - Midgard - LGPL (http://www.midgard-project.org/)
    - Xaraya - GPL (http://www.xaraya.com/)

    I would like to study Krysalis Foundation; anybody volunteering for Midgard and
    Xaraya?

    Mugur


    > > 2. Arguments why we should not use one and build the new Campsite
    > > using some lower-level building blocks such as Pear (I already see
    > > Micz's name next to that volunteer slot Wink.
    > >
    > > 3. We need volunteers who will present other good CMSs out there
    > > (Mambo, Drupal, etc.). If anyone would like to argue, at his own
    > > risk, that we should tweak a CMS instead of continuing with our own
    > > development, this is the category to apply for. Expect to lose the
    > > argument, but good devil's advocates will be appreciated Wink
    >
    > I would add number 4 here.
    >
    > 4. If we'll develop our own solution why we should be compatible with
    > the plugins of some famous CMS's with hundred plugins already there.
    >
    > Nenad
    >
    >





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