Airtime Development Status // Summer 2016 - Airtime Development Discussions on Sourcefabric Forum

Roger Wilco

"Hi everybody,

firstly, I want to say as one of the Sourcefabric people, that we are reading the forum and often discuss the threads much more than many of you might think. Why don't we do this in the forum, you may ask. And I can not give you a good reason for that. At times it feels like a "where do we start..." situation.

Firstly, yes, we want to release a free version. We want to update the repo. And we often find ourselves saying "... and then, next month, we could start working on the github repo". When you say this twelve times, a year has passed.

Our development is focussing on the SaaS offering Airtime.pro. We have decided to do this to create revenue to assure that the development can continue and in the long term grow a team around the Airtime code base. Airtime development is not slowing down. Quite the opposite - which leads to the situation where bringing all the improvements to github becomes a bigger task each month.

Focussing on SaaS also meant that Airtime has grown more and more into a "cloud only" application. Those who have been with Airtime for a longer time know that in the beginning, Airtime was intended to be a software in the studio, assisting live broadcasts with automation and automated recording and rebroadcasting.

Also, the code base is currently very closely intertwined with all the applications needed to run a SaaS operation. It is not easy to rip out the Airtime code and put it on github. Decoupling Airtime from the SaaS infrastructure is what's needed. And because we take our development very seriously, we keep pushing this into the future.

Some in this forum suggested to fork Airtime. Inside our development team, some also think: this is a good idea, why not? Others in our team keep coming back to what I said earlier: let's just soon find some time to work on the github repo.

We also thought about a kickstarter campaign to bring the code base back to github and work on the decoupling from the SaaS infrastructure.

I decided to throw my thoughts into the discussion to overcome the disconnect. I also wanted to give you a bit of insight into where we stand. This is not about turning out back to the open source nature of the project.

I do agree with some voices in this forum that the focus on Airtime.pro effectively makes this project look like a closed source project. Not even like an "open core" project, because what we run on Airtime.pro is fundamentally different from the latest release on github.

This is where we currently stand. Forking the project is a possibility. Looking for an alternative is also a possibility. Using the Airtime.pro SaaS is also a possibility (I am not being cynical here, I mean it.). There is also the possibility to bring some funding together through kickstarter or the like and make the github release not a task on the side but a real milestone on the roadmap.

We want to release a version, but we need time and resources to work on the release. We don't have the resources right now to focus beyond the Airtime.pro offering. Good news: Airtime.pro is growing. So we will eventually be more flexible with resources.

I am not saying if, when and what. I wanted to send you some of our thoughts.

All the best, micz"

June 27 -- source

Roger Wilco

ttt

Younes Duret

Hello Roger,

First I want to thank you for the update... I can tell you that we've been waiting for a post from you guys for a long... very long time...

Personally, I fully understand your point of view and thoughts.

I happy to know that Airtime.pro is doing well but I really think that you should'nt let down the community that used, shared, modified, improved and helped Airtime to be what it is now... as you said :"we are reading the forum and often discuss the threads much more than many of you might think".

I think a Kickstarter campaign is a good idea... I would clearly give money for this!
But also have you ever thought on creating paid add-ons and plugins that improve the performance and add functionalities... Like that you will still be able to give a free version of Airtime but you will get money from plugins... I think this business model is also a very good solution...

Nevertheless, and because I am a user for many years now of this platform, I hope you'll find a solution and you can make an up-to-date version soon...

Roger Wilco

ttt

Younes Duret

Hahahah just realised that you quoted Mics from an other topic posted mid 2015!
I was sooooooo thrilled to get a message from the Airtime crew that I didn't even saw the "Source" line at the end of your post...

Frankly it's crazy that they do not even take the time to keep us informed... anyway

Soyus Valentine

That was a good one! Almost fooled us! Lol

RIP open source Airtime

Roger Wilco

" The Airtime team has added several new team members, and this new blood has brought new ideas and new energy, so expect some impressive changes by the end of this year and early next year. First in line will be a revamped scheduler with clocks and many other cool features. Stay tuned! We will also concentrate on increasing uptime specs even further. Airtime Pro business reached a few more milestones in August, and we’ll keep on reaching new ones. "

Sourcefabric News eMail -- September 14 2016

Younes Duret · Post edited by Younes Duret at 2016-09-19 15:34:18

Last time I saw a company turning the back to their community and changing from Open source to Close source is Makerbot... it's a 3D printing company that decided to make direct profit instead of improving their machines with their community... The result of that decision: they moved in less than 3 years from market leader to almost bankruptcy... and now, who is the leader in this market? Ultimaker, an open source 3D printing company.... QED

Roger Wilco

And on the other hand, what ever happened to that little fruit company that sold open hardware long before it started selling closed proprietary gadgets?

Voisses Tech

@Roger Wlco

I have fun reading any of your post .Used to say "What are you talking about will!" but if I could create a next section and name it Comedy and Clicks "I definitely would put most of your post Lol.

@Younes Duret
They say "Money is the Root of all Evil" just to interpret

Money will make you forget your friends
Money can make you do strange things

and many others.

Maybe its more complicated than we think but for whatever reasons,

Lets ride the ship.It might be a bumpy ride

Its so shameful though I can only compare it to some one who have so much promised to become one of the world best but then they just start doing crazy things

Roger Wilco

ARrgh! :ar!

Roger Wilco

“Long time no see!

Airtime Pro has been going through a lot of improvements lately. Coming soon are enhancements to the Scheduler and a new implementation of the industry-standard Broadcast Clock which provides hourly templates for each show's content.”

Sourcefabric News eMail -- October 13 2016

Younes Duret

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA... everything we asked them to implement to the system many years ago!!!

:-@

Roger Wilco

To le top

Younes Duret

Up Up Up and re-up

Robbt

So I finally got some time to test my attempt to hack together a usable fork of the airtime.pro code that I pulled from Github and add some functionality. I've tested it on Ubuntu 14.04 from a fresh install and I've been working out some kinks in the install script and commenting out non-functional features such as Soundcloud and Facebook.

I've also added a automatic playlist that allows you to combine multiple smart playlists and will automatically schedule itself an hour before a show is supposed to air. This is similar to the rotations code but allows you to stack smart playlists and utilizes the filters such as "sort by newest" etc. The rotations code was developed after they removed the SAAS branch from Airtime so it and anything newer than that is not included.

I did also modify the Podcasts to add the podcast name as the album for the mp3 tracks as airtime.pro completely relies upon the ID3 data of the podcast and a lot of people creating podcasts in the grassroots radio world from our experience are sloppy with the metadata.

Since I downloaded the code from the SAAS branch via a zip all of the branch commits are lost. I still need to merge this with my Github repo and there is the question of whether a full blown fork as a project should by built. Here is a link for anyone interested. Just download it and run ./install as root in a fresh Ubuntu 14.04 install. It might also work as an upgrade on an existing 2.5.2 but I would backup everything before you try this. https://www.dropbox.com/s/9uztfdyzwvjqgad/eeebcaster-airtime-fork.tar.gz?dl=0

Reaz Baksh

Hello @robbt, I had given up on Airtime about 2 years ago but seeing your post I decided to try yours. After install the localhost does not show. Under the apache2 sites there is no airtime site.

I think you should fork and create a new project. just my 2 cents..

Robbt

Reaz, I think the issue maybe that for some reason the install script was not doing the default values when you hit enter. So you have to type in Y and then enter for it to create the default apache script. This is something I'll have troubleshoot with the script.

Ralf Zosch Peter · Post edited by Ralf Zosch Peter at 2016-11-24 14:01:07

@Robbt,

Can i Use your Version Offical? Is This Version Open Source? Ive Testet and Works Great, THx

But, cannot not set Master Porl and Url and DJ Port an URL

Roger Wilco

"We are working on several exciting new features, including a brand new Radio page which is almost done. We presented the new features in Minsk, at the partners' meeting of the microwav.fm project, and got a lot of positive feedback.

Getting popular: the Airtime Pro Facebook page now has more than 2000 fans!"

Sourcefabric News eMail -- November 22 2016

Carlos Reutemann · Post edited by Carlos Reutemann at 2016-11-25 14:39:28

Carlos Reutemann

@Robbt I went to the directory airtime-dev-test and typed install
It answered missing file operand

Robbt

./install is the command to run the install script. This has only been tested with Ubuntu 14.04.

Roger Wilco

Be there no doubt -- it works! Keep the bug reports coming y'all... :bz

10u15

Will the open source version of Airtime be updated any time soon?

Roger Wilco

Do bears in the woods use Charmin? =))

10u15 · Post edited by 10u15 at 2016-11-26 18:36:43

Let's fork then if nothing comes up by the end of the year.

Roger Wilco

"The microwav.fm project provides the participating groups and organisations with radio and media production software, training and tools. An important part of the project is training participants both in radio and website production and in the use of Sourcefabric’s free and open-source radio automation software Airtime Pro. An experienced radio professional also assists the microwav.fm participants in the development of schedules for their radio channels, and recording and editing of radio shows." -- source

Wut? :-/

Robbt

Well it seems like my sharing of an installable next gen version based on airtime saas-dev/airtime.pro has at least made stirred up some interest in the process of a fork.

The next step is coordinating code contributions (since a couple of people have shared bugs etc).

I set-up this instance of Taiga (a open-source bug/development tracker) - https://tree.taiga.io/project/robbt-libreairwaves-airtime-fork

If people want to join it they can report issues and we can discuss code. The code I shared is still AGPLv3 with most of the code being copyleft SourceFabric. So a reminder that anyone modifying it and hosting it for people to use should contribute their code/modifications back.

I think in order to facilitate code contributions we will need to put the code back up on github. Since the branch it was based on was deleted from github the commits etc. beyond the mods I made are non-existant.

So the sticky part is forking the 2.5.x code and then applying this code as a massive commit. I think that can be done by merging it somehow, but I haven't attempted it yet.

Younes Duret

@Roger Wilco

I just posted a comment on there page: "Hello. Are you aware that Airtime Pro is not "free and open-source"..."

I feel like "open-source" is more like a cool trend... but Airtime was free and open-source 4 years ago... Now they just let an outdated repo just to pretend that they are still open-source... haaaaa Marketing...

Roger Wilco

@Younes

Looks like they've edited the page but were bound and determined to keep "open source" in there...

"Airtime Pro is a service provided by Sourcefabric based on the open source technology Airtime."

Ayy

mrkrotos

I wait with interest at the idea of a fork :)

Brian Daneu

@Robbt

I have found a major bug for me in the Fork you did. Disk Storage Quota in GB will not go above 50GB I have a server with 5.4TB and I can't expand above 50GB

Robbt

@Robbt

Brian Daneu said:

I have found a major bug for me in the Fork you did. Disk Storage Quota in GB will not go above 50GB I have a server with 5.4TB and I can't expand above 50GB

Ok, this is a pretty big bug, but probably simple enough to fix. I will add it to the bug tracker and test it out. It should be easy enough to resolve. I also need to figure out the Remote DJ stuff already mentioned.

Robbt · Post edited by Robbt at 2016-12-09 21:13:48

Robbt · Post edited by Robbt at 2016-12-09 21:13:21

Javascript accidental double post.

Robbt

This post was an accident.

Robbt

.

Robbt

..

Robbt

..... unable to delete but hey.

Robbt

What I was trying to post before the Post Comment javascript time out and incessant clicking was caused a slew of reposts. Basically I set-up https://tree.taiga.io/project/robbt-libreairwaves-airtime-fork so that anyone can post issues as an external member and also comment on them. If anyone wants to test that please do so. I will hopefully get working again on the fork sometime in the next week or so.

orotkov

Great work Robbt

Installed and launched. Right now it is working, but I was upset when I found that there is inactive Master/Show Source.

How can we assist to make this function working?

Don Harris

I've gone through the install and things appear to work. But the main function I wanted to use was the scheduled recording feature but it doesn't appear to be there. Am I missing a menu or has that feature not been included? Thanks

Robbt

I don't think the schedule recording functionality was ported to Airtime.pro, so it was probably missing from this branch. But since it was included in the 2.5.2 version it should be possible to add it.

So there are a definitely a few things to add, I'll try and hack at it when I can find the free time, no promises/deadlines but hopefully sometime in the beginning of the year I'll have time to work on making it a proper fork with an actual git repository etc, so that features can be fixed and added.

Voisses Tech

So great to see a step forward but I have concerns

WhmcsLogin - why is this in the new program and there are no notes that it was added in.In fact I would have to say a change log would be appropriate .The fact that is uses curl in the controller is more so amazing to me.The recommend way to make http request is by Zend http client in fact its more portable
Why is this package larger than the even ver 2.5.2 but quiet so large than the original packed its 35mb but unpacked its 67mb
Bootstrap this has change dramatically ,there is a new apikeys config ,yet not include in the config folders. Instead of also including the css and js script onetime in the bootstrap which makes them available to all controllers ,you chose to include them individually in the controllers
Most things here could be done by Api Calls,rather than remaking controllers for them like the podcast
why dropbox? Is it to count the hits that download.? Airtime have a little talking script "phone stat" that dials home ,I think you should manipulate that so you get how much people actually install and using your program,rather than using a person thing like dropbox

I have to take my christmas and look deep into this ,then I will share with you and the community what I have done.

I hope you will continue the effort though

Robbt

The larger file size It is probably because the git files are there.
Most of the changelog and git commits were lost due to the branch being removed from Github by SourceFabric. The changes I made were in there as git commits.

Taking everything apart does need to be done, I did the minimal hacking to make things work as best I could. I don't fully understand it, the most tinkering I did was creating the AutoPlaylist functionality that allows multiple smart playlists to be scheduled.

Dropbox was simply because I was in a rush to get it up and let people test it, that was the easiest way that came to my mind. I don't even know if I can track downloads with it. My intention is to put it up on a github as a proper fork and try to recover at least the 2.5.x git history and merge it, but I haven't spent the time to do that yet.

There are some missing config and API things that weren't documented anywhere in the code. I had to comment out links to some of them as they were causing things to crash, specifically off the top of my head the amazon S3 integration is missing the APIs etc. Soundcloud API is also disabled. These could probably be made to work.

But yeah, my intention was just to get something that people could install and play around with and give feedback on. Lots of feedback, now I just need to spend more time working on it. Feel free to collaborate with your findings here or on the taiga issue tracker I setup.

James van Zeeland

This news, late as I am to it - that OSS Airtime is effectively been left to bit rot - is the most disappointing thing I have read all year. I can't tell you how disappointed I am that Sourcefabric has taken this path.

I work with a nationwide commercial radio network. We are assessing playout engines for commercial use, and I can tell you now that an on premesis airtime that integrates advertising traffic could be a winner.

A cloud solution won't even get a look in. I don't understand such a short sighted decision and can only presume that it is fundamentally associated with for profit motives.

Were you to be offering an on-premesis airtime pro with support provisions - say similar model to CentOS vs RedHat Enterprise - it would be something I could recommend to my colleagues.

I can still suggest it but I suspect that given the quality of internet connections at many of our regional stations, Airtime Pro would simply be dismissed out of hand and I expect with good reason.

Again - profoundly disappointed and I hope the Libretime fork can prove fruitful. I would urge Sourcefabric to reconsider the current exclusive development focus on a cloud solution. It has fundamental limitations that in turn limit the market you can provide the service to.

I strongly expect that it would pointless to even suggest the AirtimePro product for use within our network.

SO disappointed.

Did I mention how disappointed I am?

John Chewter

There is hope... Go to here: http://libretime.org/
Based on AirtimePro - under very active development.

James van Zeeland

Thanks. Am already downloading and building a testbed :)

Sourcefabric News eMail -- November 22 2016

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“Long time no see!Airtime Pro has been going through a lot of improvements lately. Coming soon are enhancements to the Scheduler and a new implementation of the industry-standard Broadcast Clock which provides hourly templates for each show's content.”Sourcefabric News eMail -- October 13 2016

Sourcefabric News eMail -- November 22 2016

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