[campsite-dev] topics: tracker installation - Newscoop Development Discussions on Sourcefabric Forum

import

Mugur, Paul,

Florian has been working on an accurate traffic tracker for Campsite (using
phpopentracker)... While he has finished quite a bit of code, he still
needs some help before he packages it into a GUI. And we could have it
ready by the end of the week.

You will see in more detail below what Florian needs (below Micz's reply),
but here are the priorities that he needs to be helped with (in order of
importance):

1. The statistics for IP based subscriptions
2. The stats for subscriber usage of the site
3. Tracking of topics

So please tell him about the parameters he is asking about.

Florian, in terms of priorities for the tracker,

1. it can be a standalone application for starters (and maybe it should
even remain outside of the basic campsite package).
2. Let's have a GUI for all things you can track at the moment as soon as
possible, broken down by time units (hour, day, week, month).

Thank you all in advance,

Sava
----- Forwarded by Sava Tatic/Mdlf on 02/28/05 05:22 PM -----

Micz Flor
, Aleksandar Brajanoski
>
Sent by: cc:
micz.flor@web.de Subject: topics: tracker installation

02/28/05 12:46 PM

hi everybody. first: shall we move this to the campsite-dev list???

the topic issue... braja is right. and florian has a problem.

the best way to understand *topics* is to think of a tree structure like
yahoo with categories that get more and more defined. like: mammal >
human > braja. but there is also the possibility of finding braja in:
internet > webslave > braja. or european > serb > braja.

the reason that topics is quite important on the site is the same reason it

is used by yahoo and/or google: it allows you to organise content more
flexible than just in the campsite order of issue > section > article.

transitions uses topics to structure their site. so in the case of
transisitions, there might only be one relevant *topic* for each item in
the database. but for other publications there might be more than one...

so the problem is: how to build a universal tracker that takes such user
defined options like "track topics please" into account.

At 12:32 28.02.2005, florian clauss wrote:
>hi braja,
>
>i have a question about your document. first, let me say, i am not very
firm
>with campsite, so perhabs there is fundamental knowledge missing.
>
>for now the tracker tracks this parameters:
> IdLanguage,
> IdPublication,
> NrIssue,
> NrSection,
> NrArticle
>
>you need to be tracked:
> Topic,
> Statistics for login/password users,
> Statistics for IP account based users
>
>here my question:
>can you give me the parameters, which campsite is using for Topic and
>Statistics, so i can these attach to the counting-image (image.php) in
this
>structure:
>
>
>
>are these parametres valid for each campsite installation?
>
>i installed a newer version of phpopentracker on my testserver and the
>cookie-function to track returning visitors is working now.
>
>i have a question about the admin interface: is there any documenation of
>the admin interface in php? i need more information, if it is possible to
>use classes or global functions for processes like registration or date
and
>time function or stylesheets or something like that?
>
>thank you and best from berlin
>
>florian

Micz Flor - micz@mi.cz

content and media development http://mi.cz
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.campware.org -- http://crash.mi.cz -- http://suemi.de
"Good job. Hopefully he will go elsewhere..." (Sava Tatic)
-----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

> > Topic,
> > Statistics for login/password users,
> > Statistics for IP account based users
I can't differentiate between regular and IP based subscriptions but I think
this is not needed. One only needs to know which client accessed the site. So
the last two are the same thing.

I'll have to modify the parser so you can display the topic and user
identifiers the following way:

So your image URL will look like this:

height="1"/>

> >are these parametres valid for each campsite installation?
Yes, but starting from 2.2 they will change. We'll talk later about this in
detail.

> >i have a question about the admin interface: is there any documenation of
> >the admin interface in php? i need more information, if it is possible to
> >use classes or global functions for processes like registration or date
> >and time function or stylesheets or something like that?
Unfortunatelly there is no documentation on admin interface; there are no
classes or global functions for registration. Please let me know exactly what
you want to do and we'll see if it's possible to do something quickly. From
2.2.0 there will be an API but it still needs documentation.

Mugur

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

>
>
ok. thank you. i think, both identifiers are integers.

>>> i have a question about the admin interface: is there any documenation of
>>> the admin interface in php? i need more information, if it is possible to
>>> use classes or global functions for processes like registration or date
>>> and time function or stylesheets or something like that?
> Unfortunatelly there is no documentation on admin interface; there are no
> classes or global functions for registration. Please let me know exactly what
> you want to do and we'll see if it's possible to do something quickly. From
> 2.2.0 there will be an API but it still needs documentation.
the main issue is, that i can use the same stylesheet. so there won't be a
disruption of surface of the single admin modules.

best
florian

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

At 21:39 28.02.2005, Mugur Rus wrote:
>

mugur: what if

a) we are in a section (i guess there the template designer needs to think..)

BUT

b) if the article is liked with more than one topic???

Micz Flor - micz@mi.cz

content and media development http://mi.cz
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.campware.org -- http://crash.mi.cz -- http://suemi.de
"Good job. Hopefully he will go elsewhere..." (Sava Tatic)
-----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

Hi Micz,

The topic has nothing to do with the section or article. One can set the
environment parameter "topic" (see 3.9.2.7 Topic). The topic can be set whether
the section/article was defined or not.

Topic name "sport:en"
List article
...
EndList

This will generate a list containing articles with topic sport.

Hope this clarifies things,
Mugur

--- Micz Flor wrote:
> At 21:39 28.02.2005, Mugur Rus wrote:
> >
>
> mugur: what if
>
> a) we are in a section (i guess there the template designer needs to think..)
>
> BUT
>
> b) if the article is liked with more than one topic???
>
> Micz Flor - micz@mi.cz
>
> content and media development http://mi.cz
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.campware.org -- http://crash.mi.cz -- http://suemi.de
> "Good job. Hopefully he will go elsewhere..." (Sava Tatic)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

At 15:00 01.03.2005, you wrote:
> > b) if the article is liked with more than one topic???

but this question remains: if there is more than one topic - what will the
print topic show?

Micz Flor - micz@mi.cz

content and media development http://mi.cz
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.campware.org -- http://crash.mi.cz -- http://suemi.de
"Good job. Hopefully he will go elsewhere..." (Sava Tatic)
-----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

> > > b) if the article is liked with more than one topic???
> but this question remains: if there is more than one topic - what will the
> print topic show?
If the topic environment parameter was set it will print it; if not, it will
print nothing, regardless of how many topics the current article has. Again,
this topic parameter has nothing to do with the current article.

One could have this situation:

Topic name sport:en

So the current topic is sport.

Now, let's say the current article is "Today's politics" and this article has
the topics: politics, politicians.

This is entirely possible; print topic name will display "sport".

Mugur

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

> ok. thank you. i think, both identifiers are integers.
Hi Florian,

Please download and install campsite 2.1.7-rc1 from
http://www.campware.org/look/campware/download/campsite-2.1.7-rc1.tar.gz

These are the new statements:
"print topic identifier" - integer
"print user identifier" - integer

> the main issue is, that i can use the same stylesheet. so there won't be a
> disruption of surface of the single admin modules.
I know what you mean, but unfortunatelly there is no stylesheet. There will be
in 2.2.

Mugur

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

hey guys,

we're using 2.1.5 still. that means we can't track topics and users,
right mugur?

---
and now - something completely different:

i don't understand why we have (do we?) to limit ourselves to article
and section templates? why not use tracker_*.tpl files for other stand
alone templates (pages) that we have?

or, even better, why not use only one tracker.tpl file for all
templates? maybe the problem is that you need to initialize all the
parameters for the image source (page) URL?
---

so we are running the thing now and i'll try to include tracker
templates in other templates too and see why am i that stupid.

braja

Mugur Rus wrote:
>
> > ok. thank you. i think, both identifiers are integers.
> Hi Florian,
>
> Please download and install campsite 2.1.7-rc1 from
> http://www.campware.org/look/campware/download/campsite-2.1.7-rc1.tar.gz
>
> These are the new statements:
> "print topic identifier" - integer
> "print user identifier" - integer
>
> > the main issue is, that i can use the same stylesheet. so there won't be a
> > disruption of surface of the single admin modules.
> I know what you mean, but unfortunatelly there is no stylesheet. There will be
> in 2.2.
>
> Mugur
>
>

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

> we're using 2.1.5 still. that means we can't track topics and users,
> right mugur?
right

>
> ---
> and now - something completely different:
>
> i don't understand why we have (do we?) to limit ourselves to article
> and section templates? why not use tracker_*.tpl files for other stand
> alone templates (pages) that we have?
>
> or, even better, why not use only one tracker.tpl file for all
> templates? maybe the problem is that you need to initialize all the
> parameters for the image source (page) URL?
> ---
>
> so we are running the thing now and i'll try to include tracker
> templates in other templates too and see why am i that stupid.
>
> braja
>
>
>
> Mugur Rus wrote:
> >
> > > ok. thank you. i think, both identifiers are integers.
> > Hi Florian,
> >
> > Please download and install campsite 2.1.7-rc1 from
> > http://www.campware.org/look/campware/download/campsite-2.1.7-rc1.tar.gz
> >
> > These are the new statements:
> > "print topic identifier" - integer
> > "print user identifier" - integer
> >
> > > the main issue is, that i can use the same stylesheet. so there won't be
> a
> > > disruption of surface of the single admin modules.
> > I know what you mean, but unfortunatelly there is no stylesheet. There will
> be
> > in 2.2.
> >
> > Mugur
> >
> >
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

hello braja,

i fear, this is caused by a workaround in fluter: if you visitied an article
on go back to a section, the articlenr isn't set 0, like this:
http://www.fluter.de/look/index.tpl?IdLanguage=5&IdPublication=2&NrIssue=35&
NrSection=10&NrArticle=3761
so you're tracking an article although it is a section.

i dont know, if this problem could be solved with a newer campsite
installation. micz? what do you think?

but you are right: there should be one tracker.tpl and the right combination
of the parameters should be set by the cms-engine.

greetings
florian
> and now - something completely different:
>
> i don't understand why we have (do we?) to limit ourselves to article
> and section templates? why not use tracker_*.tpl files for other stand
> alone templates (pages) that we have?
>
> or, even better, why not use only one tracker.tpl file for all
> templates? maybe the problem is that you need to initialize all the
> parameters for the image source (page) URL?
> ---
>
> so we are running the thing now and i'll try to include tracker
> templates in other templates too and see why am i that stupid.
>
> braja
>
>
>
> Mugur Rus wrote:
>>
>>> ok. thank you. i think, both identifiers are integers.
>> Hi Florian,
>>
>> Please download and install campsite 2.1.7-rc1 from
>> http://www.campware.org/look/campware/download/campsite-2.1.7-rc1.tar.gz
>>
>> These are the new statements:
>> "print topic identifier" - integer
>> "print user identifier" - integer
>>
>>> the main issue is, that i can use the same stylesheet. so there won't be a
>>> disruption of surface of the single admin modules.
>> I know what you mean, but unfortunatelly there is no stylesheet. There will
>> be
>> in 2.2.
>>
>> Mugur
>>
>>

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

thanks.

the thing is, i guess i don't understand how it works. how can you count
that url as an article when it's not displayed through the article
template?

we can't follow that logic. i mean, the workaround on the template
designer side would be to kill unnecessary parameters each time you're
jumping back to a higher level. that is what we do at tol: if you're
jumping to section page from no-matter-where we say

and
sometimes and we reset the lists. when we jump to home page
we also kill the section parameter. but i guess it would be too much to
expect people to design templates following that rule, so what i suggest
would be: use the html title tag to resolve the page name (we will be
translating URL's in the end, right?).
so i think that's easier rule to follow:
print publication name | section name | article name
and use that information.

well, that was just for thinking.

now, tell me, because you understand now how you navigate thru TOL: we
can use only one tracker template and we get correct results?

thanks
braja

florian clauss wrote:
>
> hello braja,
>
> i fear, this is caused by a workaround in fluter: if you visitied an article
> on go back to a section, the articlenr isn't set 0, like this:
> http://www.fluter.de/look/index.tpl?IdLanguage=5&IdPublication=2&NrIssue=35&
> NrSection=10&NrArticle=3761
> so you're tracking an article although it is a section.
>
> i dont know, if this problem could be solved with a newer campsite
> installation. micz? what do you think?
>
> but you are right: there should be one tracker.tpl and the right combination
> of the parameters should be set by the cms-engine.
>
> greetings
> florian
> > and now - something completely different:
> >
> > i don't understand why we have (do we?) to limit ourselves to article
> > and section templates? why not use tracker_*.tpl files for other stand
> > alone templates (pages) that we have?
> >
> > or, even better, why not use only one tracker.tpl file for all
> > templates? maybe the problem is that you need to initialize all the
> > parameters for the image source (page) URL?
> > ---
> >
> > so we are running the thing now and i'll try to include tracker
> > templates in other templates too and see why am i that stupid.
> >
> > braja
> >
> >
> >
> > Mugur Rus wrote:
> >>
> >>> ok. thank you. i think, both identifiers are integers.
> >> Hi Florian,
> >>
> >> Please download and install campsite 2.1.7-rc1 from
> >> http://www.campware.org/look/campware/download/campsite-2.1.7-rc1.tar.gz
> >>
> >> These are the new statements:
> >> "print topic identifier" - integer
> >> "print user identifier" - integer
> >>
> >>> the main issue is, that i can use the same stylesheet. so there won't be a
> >>> disruption of surface of the single admin modules.
> >> I know what you mean, but unfortunatelly there is no stylesheet. There will
> >> be
> >> in 2.2.
> >>
> >> Mugur
> >>
> >>

--
Aleksandar Brajanoski
Internet Development Manager
Transitions Online
Chlumova 22, 130 00 Praha 3
Czech Republic
420 2 2278-0805 (extension 26)
420 2 2278-0804 (fax)
http://www.tol.cz

TOL: Intelligent Eastern Europe!

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

> we can't follow that logic. i mean, the workaround on the template
> designer side would be to kill unnecessary parameters each time you're
> jumping back to a higher level. that is what we do at tol: if you're
> jumping to section page from no-matter-where we say

and
> sometimes and we reset the lists. when we jump to home page
> we also kill the section parameter. but i guess it would be too much to
> expect people to design templates following that rule, so what i suggest
> would be: use the html title tag to resolve the page name (we will be
> translating URL's in the end, right?).
> so i think that's easier rule to follow:
> print publication name | section name | article name
> and use that information.
if we are only tracking ids coming up from the cms-engine we need not
interpret rendered textoutput. for my experience this way is error-prone.
but on the other hand we need a logical layer tracking the sites in a right
way. this could be the workaround with tracker_article.tpl and
tracker_section.tpl. this also could be the way you are handling your
parameters at tol.

> well, that was just for thinking.
>
>
> now, tell me, because you understand now how you navigate thru TOL: we
> can use only one tracker template and we get correct results?
yes, this should work with the tracker_article.tpl. here are the parameters
the tracking engine write:

CS=__ issue number>___ print topic identifier >_

the report will render the statistic according to the written aparemters.

best florian

>>
>> hello braja,
>>
>> i fear, this is caused by a workaround in fluter: if you visitied an article
>> on go back to a section, the articlenr isn't set 0, like this:
>> http://www.fluter.de/look/index.tpl?IdLanguage=5&IdPublication=2&NrIssue=35&
>> NrSection=10&NrArticle=3761
>> so you're tracking an article although it is a section.
>>
>> i dont know, if this problem could be solved with a newer campsite
>> installation. micz? what do you think?
>>
>> but you are right: there should be one tracker.tpl and the right combination
>> of the parameters should be set by the cms-engine.
>>
>> greetings
>> florian
>>> and now - something completely different:
>>>
>>> i don't understand why we have (do we?) to limit ourselves to article
>>> and section templates? why not use tracker_*.tpl files for other stand
>>> alone templates (pages) that we have?
>>>
>>> or, even better, why not use only one tracker.tpl file for all
>>> templates? maybe the problem is that you need to initialize all the
>>> parameters for the image source (page) URL?
>>> ---
>>>
>>> so we are running the thing now and i'll try to include tracker
>>> templates in other templates too and see why am i that stupid.
>>>
>>> braja
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mugur Rus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ok. thank you. i think, both identifiers are integers.
>>>> Hi Florian,
>>>>
>>>> Please download and install campsite 2.1.7-rc1 from
>>>> http://www.campware.org/look/campware/download/campsite-2.1.7-rc1.tar.gz
>>>>
>>>> These are the new statements:
>>>> "print topic identifier" - integer
>>>> "print user identifier" - integer
>>>>
>>>>> the main issue is, that i can use the same stylesheet. so there won't be a
>>>>> disruption of surface of the single admin modules.
>>>> I know what you mean, but unfortunatelly there is no stylesheet. There will
>>>> be
>>>> in 2.2.
>>>>
>>>> Mugur
>>>>
>>>>
>
> --
> Aleksandar Brajanoski
> Internet Development Manager
> Transitions Online
> Chlumova 22, 130 00 Praha 3
> Czech Republic
> 420 2 2278-0805 (extension 26)
> 420 2 2278-0804 (fax)
> http://www.tol.cz
>
> TOL: Intelligent Eastern Europe!

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

import

hello Florian,
(Mugur, Micz, please read too)

more stuff from me:

- i tested the "Current Activity" function. it shows only one page per
host in certain period of time. for example: if you open 3 pages within
5 seconds, that page will show only one page impression for your host.
my question is: is this designed behavior - which just gives you the
idea on who's there rather than showing what exactly people are doing on
your site, or is this malfunction and only this page impression is
really logged.

- visits (sessions), visitors
i understand that you have a tool to track visits and visitors now, but
you still didn't implement it and that's why there is no such a thing in
the interface. right?

- URL parameters
we talked about this already. it's about setting the thing up so it
tracks the traffic the right way. i noticed one more thing today that
supports my previous ideas on this issue.
if you're running periodical and it translates into periodic campsite
issues publishing, here is what will happen - example: you won't be able
to say how many times people have visited your home page in a year time
if you're running monthly issues. issue parameter that changes will tell
to open tracker that we're talking about 12 different pages instead of
one. right? again, if you used the title tag, you would avoid this
problem. and again, let's say that i create tracker_home-page.tpl that
doesn't count the issue, section, article, and topic parameters:
CS=__ print user identifier>
will this work if i do it right now (before we come up with some more
elegant solution or decide that this would actually be the way to go)?

- block logging referers from the mother site.
lot of referer entries come from our site and i didn't find how to
prevent this, looking into phpOpenTracker.php config file. any ideas?

- static html/campsite logs
don;t know if this is question for you, but just for the record because
we talked about it early in the begining but then failed to discuss the
issue more. it's about combining apache log and campsite log which means
you can track down non-campsite pages visitors as well. we have a lot of
static pages still, and i know some other sites using campsite which
also do. probably all existing sites that are shifting to campsite will
have this kind of problem, smaller or bigger.
i got this idea today, but you hackers should tell me if it's realistic.
lets say you have static page X. you create a frameset A. one frame is
campsite template. the other frame is page X. you write a script that
remembers that url and redirects the request to the A frameset. campsite
frame reloads and there you go, you can track your static pages as well.
possible?

thnks,
braja

florian clauss wrote:
>
> > we can't follow that logic. i mean, the workaround on the template
> > designer side would be to kill unnecessary parameters each time you're
> > jumping back to a higher level. that is what we do at tol: if you're
> > jumping to section page from no-matter-where we say

and
> > sometimes and we reset the lists. when we jump to home page
> > we also kill the section parameter. but i guess it would be too much to
> > expect people to design templates following that rule, so what i suggest
> > would be: use the html title tag to resolve the page name (we will be
> > translating URL's in the end, right?).
> > so i think that's easier rule to follow:
> > print publication name | section name | article name
> > and use that information.
> if we are only tracking ids coming up from the cms-engine we need not
> interpret rendered textoutput. for my experience this way is error-prone.
> but on the other hand we need a logical layer tracking the sites in a right
> way. this could be the workaround with tracker_article.tpl and
> tracker_section.tpl. this also could be the way you are handling your
> parameters at tol.
>
> > well, that was just for thinking.
> >
> >
> > now, tell me, because you understand now how you navigate thru TOL: we
> > can use only one tracker template and we get correct results?
> yes, this should work with the tracker_article.tpl. here are the parameters
> the tracking engine write:
>
> CS=__ > issue number>___ > print topic identifier >_
>
> the report will render the statistic according to the written aparemters.
>
> best florian
>
> >>
> >> hello braja,
> >>
> >> i fear, this is caused by a workaround in fluter: if you visitied an article
> >> on go back to a section, the articlenr isn't set 0, like this:
> >> http://www.fluter.de/look/index.tpl?IdLanguage=5&IdPublication=2&NrIssue=35&
> >> NrSection=10&NrArticle=3761
> >> so you're tracking an article although it is a section.
> >>
> >> i dont know, if this problem could be solved with a newer campsite
> >> installation. micz? what do you think?
> >>
> >> but you are right: there should be one tracker.tpl and the right combination
> >> of the parameters should be set by the cms-engine.
> >>
> >> greetings
> >> florian
> >>> and now - something completely different:
> >>>
> >>> i don't understand why we have (do we?) to limit ourselves to article
> >>> and section templates? why not use tracker_*.tpl files for other stand
> >>> alone templates (pages) that we have?
> >>>
> >>> or, even better, why not use only one tracker.tpl file for all
> >>> templates? maybe the problem is that you need to initialize all the
> >>> parameters for the image source (page) URL?
> >>> ---
> >>>
> >>> so we are running the thing now and i'll try to include tracker
> >>> templates in other templates too and see why am i that stupid.
> >>>
> >>> braja
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Mugur Rus wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> ok. thank you. i think, both identifiers are integers.
> >>>> Hi Florian,
> >>>>
> >>>> Please download and install campsite 2.1.7-rc1 from
> >>>> http://www.campware.org/look/campware/download/campsite-2.1.7-rc1.tar.gz
> >>>>
> >>>> These are the new statements:
> >>>> "print topic identifier" - integer
> >>>> "print user identifier" - integer
> >>>>
> >>>>> the main issue is, that i can use the same stylesheet. so there won't be a
> >>>>> disruption of surface of the single admin modules.
> >>>> I know what you mean, but unfortunatelly there is no stylesheet. There will
> >>>> be
> >>>> in 2.2.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mugur
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >
> > --
> > Aleksandar Brajanoski
> > Internet Development Manager
> > Transitions Online
> > Chlumova 22, 130 00 Praha 3
> > Czech Republic
> > 420 2 2278-0805 (extension 26)
> > 420 2 2278-0804 (fax)
> > http://www.tol.cz
> >
> > TOL: Intelligent Eastern Europe!

--
Aleksandar Brajanoski
Internet Development Manager
Transitions Online
Chlumova 22, 130 00 Praha 3
Czech Republic
420 2 2278-0805 (extension 26)
420 2 2278-0804 (fax)
http://www.tol.cz

TOL: Intelligent Eastern Europe!

------------------------------------------
Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

Poll

Top Posters