[livesupport-dev] Voicetrack application
  • Hello,

    I'm about to develop a new remote user application.

    Intro:
    Prerecorded programs usually take the same time to make as live programs,
    but various automation systems provide a way to only add voice between
    tracks. Nicely placed in the playlist it sounds like the real thing, with
    inexperienced DJ's better then their real thing.
    Our current application 'PC Radio Express' by Broadcast Partners, supports
    a system that can be learned to a lot of people who can actually come to
    our studio. Recording from home is not possible. (Everything is possible
    but it is not designed to do so.)

    The requirement of our Directory of Technology for a new (more) stable
    radio automation tool is to provide the voice track system. Normally it
    saves about 75% of time to record a show.

    This night in a meeting of our Daytime staff they came to the conclusion
    many more people could participate in making programs if they just could
    do this from home. Recording voicetracks over VNC just doesn't work so an
    other solution came to mind.

    Our current database stores outro and intro times of every number in our
    database, that data is going to be used in the program.

    Program description:
    A user downloads a generated playlist from the server, the program fetches
    all outro's - 15s and intro's + 15s from the server. A user now has an
    idea what the song sounds like and can record an item or a talkover.

    After recording he can move it around raise or lower the volume of the
    other two parts, store his work and repeat the steps for every song. The
    program sends the work back to the server and puts it in the playlist. And
    updates the intro/outro/fading with the user specified ones.

    Implementation:
    I'm thinking of making a Firefox extension to handle GUI in XUL and nicely
    work with the SMIL playlists or direct into LiveSupport by XML-RPC. The
    audio compression part Ogg/Speex WB (?) or just the good old Ogg/Vorbis
    definately worth to test. For the recording part I'll take a good look at
    other applications like mozphone. The extension will be cross platform.

    Comments, idea's:
    If someone has some idea's that could be usefull or a potential wishlist I
    would like to get some feedback.


    Greetings,

    Stefan de Konink

    ------------------------------------------
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    Hi Stefan,

    I'm thrilled to hear about your idea for the voicetrack application. The
    large amount of time that the team has spent on making LiveSupport as
    'hackable' as possible seems to be already bearing fruit!

    A few questions and thoughts come to mind, so I'll list them here:

    - When the voice tracks are recorded, I'm assuming they'll go to the
    client's /tmp directory, or will they reside in RAM until the file is
    uploaded?
    - Will all voice tracks be uploaded at once in a group, or will they go up
    individually?
    - It sounds like you're not only going to need the client app, but
    something that interfaces with the playlist editing functions in the
    scheduler. Maybe a more elaborate version of the 'reorder playlist'
    feature in the HTML UI? Regardless, the files will still have to be
    uploaded into the StorageServer, right?
    - Based on my experience - and even watching Robert Klajn work on a set of
    jingles we're including on the LiveSupport install/live CD - it seems like
    a lot of effects are applied to announcers' voices. Wouldn't it be easier
    to use something like Audacity, which allows for a wide number of effects
    to be applied to a sound file, for the recording and manipulation?
    - How will talent know the duration each spoken segment has to be?
    - How should metadata be handled for each spoken segment, assuming they're
    going to be individual entries in the StorageServer? The two obvious
    options seem flawed: Either the individual spoken segments require
    individual metadata, which is a pain, or the group of spoken segments is
    treated as its own object, which is very inadequate for later
    retrieval/use


    Looking forward to hearing your answers, as well as some feedback from the
    others,


    douglas


    =============================================
    Media Development Loan Fund
    =============================================
    Douglas Arellanes
    Head of Research and Development
    Center for Advanced Media--Prague (CAMP)
    Na vinicnich horach 24a/1834, 160 00 Prague 6
    Czech Republic
    Tel: + 420 2 3333 5356, Fax: +420 2 2431 5419
    Mobile: +420 724 073 364
    http://www.mdlf-camp.net
    http://www.campware.org
    =============================================
    http://www.mdlf.org
    =============================================




    Stefan de Konink
    08/23/2005 01:09 AM
    Please respond to livesupport-dev


    To: livesupport-dev@campware.org
    cc:
    Subject: [livesupport-dev] Voicetrack application


    Hello,

    I'm about to develop a new remote user application.

    Intro:
    Prerecorded programs usually take the same time to make as live programs,
    but various automation systems provide a way to only add voice between
    tracks. Nicely placed in the playlist it sounds like the real thing, with
    inexperienced DJ's better then their real thing.
    Our current application 'PC Radio Express' by Broadcast Partners, supports
    a system that can be learned to a lot of people who can actually come to
    our studio. Recording from home is not possible. (Everything is possible
    but it is not designed to do so.)

    The requirement of our Directory of Technology for a new (more) stable
    radio automation tool is to provide the voice track system. Normally it
    saves about 75% of time to record a show.

    This night in a meeting of our Daytime staff they came to the conclusion
    many more people could participate in making programs if they just could
    do this from home. Recording voicetracks over VNC just doesn't work so an
    other solution came to mind.

    Our current database stores outro and intro times of every number in our
    database, that data is going to be used in the program.

    Program description:
    A user downloads a generated playlist from the server, the program fetches
    all outro's - 15s and intro's + 15s from the server. A user now has an
    idea what the song sounds like and can record an item or a talkover.

    After recording he can move it around raise or lower the volume of the
    other two parts, store his work and repeat the steps for every song. The
    program sends the work back to the server and puts it in the playlist. And
    updates the intro/outro/fading with the user specified ones.

    Implementation:
    I'm thinking of making a Firefox extension to handle GUI in XUL and nicely
    work with the SMIL playlists or direct into LiveSupport by XML-RPC. The
    audio compression part Ogg/Speex WB (?) or just the good old Ogg/Vorbis
    definately worth to test. For the recording part I'll take a good look at
    other applications like mozphone. The extension will be cross platform.

    Comments, idea's:
    If someone has some idea's that could be usefull or a potential wishlist I
    would like to get some feedback.


    Greetings,

    Stefan de Konink




    --=_alternative 002F2615C1257067_=
    Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"



    Hi Stefan,



    I'm thrilled to hear about your idea for the voicetrack application. The large amount of time that the team has spent on making LiveSupport as 'hackable' as possible seems to be already bearing fruit!



    A few questions and thoughts come to mind, so I'll list them here:



    - When the voice tracks are recorded, I'm assuming they'll go to the client's /tmp directory, or will they reside in RAM until the file is uploaded?

    - Will all voice tracks be uploaded at once in a group, or will they go up individually?

    - It sounds like you're not only going to need the client app, but something that interfaces with the playlist editing functions in the scheduler. Maybe a more elaborate version of the 'reorder playlist' feature in the HTML UI? Regardless, the files will still have to be uploaded into the StorageServer, right?

    - Based on my experience - and even watching Robert Klajn work on a set of jingles we're including on the LiveSupport install/live CD - it seems like a lot of effects are applied to announcers' voices. Wouldn't it be easier to use something like Audacity, which allows for a wide number of effects to be applied to a sound file, for the recording and manipulation?

    - How will talent know the duration each spoken segment has to be?

    - How should metadata be handled for each spoken segment, assuming they're going to be individual entries in the StorageServer? The two obvious options seem flawed: Either the individual spoken segments require individual metadata, which is a pain, or the group of spoken segments is treated as its own object, which is very inadequate for later retrieval/use





    Looking forward to hearing your answers, as well as some feedback from the others,





    douglas





    =============================================

    Media Development Loan Fund

    =============================================

    Douglas Arellanes

    Head of Research and Development

    Center for Advanced Media--Prague (CAMP)

    Na vinicnich horach 24a/1834, 160 00  Prague 6

    Czech Republic

    Tel: + 420 2 3333 5356, Fax: +420 2 2431 5419

    Mobile: +420 724 073 364

    http://www.mdlf-camp.net

    http://www.campware.org

    =============================================

    http://www.mdlf.org

    =============================================










    Stefan de Konink <skinkie@xs4all.nl>

    08/23/2005 01:09 AM

    Please respond to livesupport-dev


           

            To:        livesupport-dev@campware.org

            cc:        

            Subject:        [livesupport-dev] Voicetrack application






    Hello,



    I'm about to develop a new remote user application.



    Intro:

    Prerecorded programs usually take the same time to make as live programs,

    but various automation systems provide a way to only add voice between

    tracks. Nicely placed in the playlist it sounds like the real thing, with

    inexperienced DJ's better then their real thing.

    Our current application 'PC Radio Express' by Broadcast Partners, supports

    a system that can be learned to a lot of people who can actually come to

    our studio. Recording from home is not possible. (Everything is possible

    but it is not designed to do so.)



    The requirement of our Directory of Technology for a new (more) stable

    radio automation tool is to provide the voice track system. Normally it

    saves about 75% of time to record a show.



    This night in a meeting of our Daytime staff they came to the conclusion

    many more people could participate in making programs if they just could

    do this from home. Recording voicetracks over VNC just doesn't work so an

    other solution came to mind.



    Our current database stores outro and intro times of every number in our

    database, that data is going to be used in the program.



    Program description:

    A user downloads a generated playlist from the server, the program fetches

    all outro's - 15s and intro's + 15s from the server. A user now has an

    idea what the song sounds like and can record an item or a talkover.



    After recording he can move it around raise or lower the volume of the

    other two parts, store his work and repeat the steps for every song. The

    program sends the work back to the server and puts it in the playlist. And

    updates the intro/outro/fading with the user specified ones.



    Implementation:

    I'm thinking of making a Firefox extension to handle GUI in XUL and nicely

    work with the SMIL playlists or direct into LiveSupport by XML-RPC. The

    audio compression part Ogg/Speex WB (?) or just the good old Ogg/Vorbis

    definately worth to test. For the recording part I'll take a good look at

    other applications like mozphone. The extension will be cross platform.



    Comments, idea's:

    If someone has some idea's that could be usefull or a potential wishlist I

    would like to get some feedback.





    Greetings,



    Stefan de Konink








    --=_alternative 002F2615C1257067_=--

    ------------------------------------------
    Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
  • Hello,

    Thanks for your reply, I will answer them in parts.

    Douglas.Arellanes@mdlf.org wrote:
    > - When the voice tracks are recorded, I'm assuming they'll go to the
    > client's /tmp directory, or will they reside in RAM until the file is
    > uploaded?
    Maybe someone already noticed I'm exploring the possibilities to make
    Firefox natively work with sound.
    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=305567

    Until then it will depend on the used audiolibrary, to play save storing
    directly to disk sound the best way around. This is one of the major
    problems with the current system it cannot be selected and literally a
    COMPLETE show is lost when something goes wrong.

    I think it should be selectable an audioterminal has normally enough
    memory to compress and send, but the diskspace is on the otherside of
    the networkline thus makes it 'relatively' slow on a GigE interface Wink

    > - Will all voice tracks be uploaded at once in a group, or will they go
    > up individually?
    Background scheduling for DSL/Cable users was talked about, but this
    should be selectable too. Like the download function. For example you
    could start right away ones you download the first samples. And don't
    need to wait for songs last in your playlist.

    > - It sounds like you're not only going to need the client app, but
    > something that interfaces with the playlist editing functions in the
    > scheduler. Maybe a more elaborate version of the 'reorder playlist'
    > feature in the HTML UI? Regardless, the files will still have to be
    > uploaded into the StorageServer, right?
    This is correct. Although placing (voice-)track between tracks should
    not be too hard in a DOM way. What worries me is the fade level and time
    (and howto put such thing in a playlist).

    > - Based on my experience - and even watching Robert Klajn work on a set
    > of jingles we're including on the LiveSupport install/live CD - it seems
    > like a lot of effects are applied to announcers' voices. Wouldn't it be
    > easier to use something like Audacity, which allows for a wide number of
    > effects to be applied to a sound file, for the recording and manipulation?
    Wow Wink This is an ongoing discussion at our radio station, currently
    there is a hardware Behringer voiceprocessor and a no-name effectbox
    between the mic and mixer. Though it is prefered to not alter the voice
    too much because *all* voice is (live-)processed again before it is
    broadcast.

    But imagine this, our unpayed personal need to record about 5 hours of
    program for a week. Do you really think it works fast to record stuff in
    Audacity? I did it before and I can honestly say, it doesn't, because
    recording is easy but managing the MP3/Ogg files out of it doesn't.


    > - How will talent know the duration each spoken segment has to be?
    Can be unlimited, the current system even paste the end of the intro
    seamlessly to the end of the voice track.
    _______________________________________________________
    | outro | | intro |
    music | s. voice | voice | e. voice | music
    _______________|__________|_______|__________|_________

    So basically it makes a bad DJ a good one Wink

    This image makes me think, about compression of the 'voice' part Wink But
    I will elaborate on that later.

    > - How should metadata be handled for each spoken segment, assuming
    > they're going to be individual entries in the StorageServer? The two
    > obvious options seem flawed: Either the individual spoken segments
    > require individual metadata, which is a pain, or the group of spoken
    > segments is treated as its own object, which is very inadequate for
    > later retrieval/use
    The current software manage it by time and because their data is so
    *@#$^&&# stupid stored, it cannot be used to repeat programs. I think
    the best thing would be save the following metadata:

    Track1 / Voice Artist / Track2

    And when explicit content is used a small tag.



    I hope I made it a bit clear,


    Stefan

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