Ana Nedic wrote:
>> I'm going to retire the old fastnews templates because they dont work,
>> and fixing them isnt worth it - the other templates by the MOW team
>> illustrate the same thing but do it better.
>
> I'm not follow you very well. Can you explain to us what you meant?
> What is wrong with things which Mugurs/Mow templates illustrate? What it
> miss?
> Topic on SummerCamp was that Mugurs templates are good and that they
> need just some better design. Sava asked us to do that and Boban and I
> spent a lot of time to do that (we preserved Mugurs templates and add
> new layout).

There's nothing wrong with the MOW templates - they work well and look
very nice. Its only the fastnews template that had problems.

- Paul

The packages I am NOT talking about are the MOW demo sites. These are
the ones pictured here:
http://www.campware.org/en/camp/campsite_news/622/

We are going to keep those.

The package I am talking about is the one that used to be called
demo-package-2.3.tar.gz. When you installed it, it said in big bold
letters "Fast News" at the top of the front page (the new MOW templates
say "Packaged Template #" at the top.)

- Paul


Mugur Rus wrote:
> Paul, are you talking about MOW fastnews templates? Or the old fastnews
> templates (before Ana improved them)?
>
> If you're talking about the first set I do not agree. While I agree to retire
> the old fastnews templates because they are ugly (although they work!!!) I
> can't agree to retire the improved templates.
>
> Mugur
>
> --- Paul Baranowski wrote:
>
>>Ana Nedic wrote:
>>
>>>>I'm going to retire the old fastnews templates because they dont work,
>>>>and fixing them isnt worth it - the other templates by the MOW team
>>>>illustrate the same thing but do it better.
>>>
>>>I'm not follow you very well. Can you explain to us what you meant?
>>>What is wrong with things which Mugurs/Mow templates illustrate? What it
>>>miss?
>>>Topic on SummerCamp was that Mugurs templates are good and that they
>>>need just some better design. Sava asked us to do that and Boban and I
>>>spent a lot of time to do that (we preserved Mugurs templates and add
>>>new layout).
>>
>>There's nothing wrong with the MOW templates - they work well and look
>>very nice. Its only the fastnews template that had problems.
>>
>>- Paul
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited
> Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
> http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
>

Paul, as I understand you want to retire the templates you ca see here:
http://cs-dev.campware.org

and replace them with John's templates. Ok, please show me John's templates,
I'd like to have a say too.

Mugur

--- Paul Baranowski wrote:
> The packages I am NOT talking about are the MOW demo sites. These are
> the ones pictured here:
> http://www.campware.org/en/camp/campsite_news/622/
>
> We are going to keep those.
>
> The package I am talking about is the one that used to be called
> demo-package-2.3.tar.gz. When you installed it, it said in big bold
> letters "Fast News" at the top of the front page (the new MOW templates
> say "Packaged Template #" at the top.)
>
> - Paul
>
>
> Mugur Rus wrote:
> > Paul, are you talking about MOW fastnews templates? Or the old fastnews
> > templates (before Ana improved them)?
> >
> > If you're talking about the first set I do not agree. While I agree to
> retire
> > the old fastnews templates because they are ugly (although they work!!!) I
> > can't agree to retire the improved templates.
> >
> > Mugur
> >
> > --- Paul Baranowski wrote:
> >
> >>Ana Nedic wrote:
> >>
> >>>>I'm going to retire the old fastnews templates because they dont work,
> >>>>and fixing them isnt worth it - the other templates by the MOW team
> >>>>illustrate the same thing but do it better.
> >>>
> >>>I'm not follow you very well. Can you explain to us what you meant?
> >>>What is wrong with things which Mugurs/Mow templates illustrate? What it
> >>>miss?
> >>>Topic on SummerCamp was that Mugurs templates are good and that they
> >>>need just some better design. Sava asked us to do that and Boban and I
> >>>spent a lot of time to do that (we preserved Mugurs templates and add
> >>>new layout).
> >>
> >>There's nothing wrong with the MOW templates - they work well and look
> >>very nice. Its only the fastnews template that had problems.
> >>
> >>- Paul
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Music Unlimited
> > Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
> > http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
> >
>
>





__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Ok, I've seen them both and I still like Ana's fastnews templates more. So I'm
still against switching them.

Mugur

--- John Pye wrote:
> My templates are at http://campsite.jdpipe.dyndns.org/ when my home
> computer is turned on.
>
> JP
>
> Mugur Rus wrote:
>
> >Paul, as I understand you want to retire the templates you ca see here:
> >http://cs-dev.campware.org
> >
> >and replace them with John's templates. Ok, please show me John's templates,
> >I'd like to have a say too.
> >
> >Mugur
> >
> >--- Paul Baranowski wrote:
> >
> >
> >>The packages I am NOT talking about are the MOW demo sites. These are
> >>the ones pictured here:
> >>http://www.campware.org/en/camp/campsite_news/622/
> >>
> >>We are going to keep those.
> >>
> >>The package I am talking about is the one that used to be called
> >>demo-package-2.3.tar.gz. When you installed it, it said in big bold
> >>letters "Fast News" at the top of the front page (the new MOW templates
> >> say "Packaged Template #" at the top.)
> >>
> >>- Paul
> >>
> >>
> >>Mugur Rus wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Paul, are you talking about MOW fastnews templates? Or the old fastnews
> >>>templates (before Ana improved them)?
> >>>
> >>>If you're talking about the first set I do not agree. While I agree to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>retire
> >>
> >>
> >>>the old fastnews templates because they are ugly (although they work!!!) I
> >>>can't agree to retire the improved templates.
> >>>
> >>>Mugur
> >>>
> >>>--- Paul Baranowski wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Ana Nedic wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>I'm going to retire the old fastnews templates because they dont work,
> >>>>>>and fixing them isnt worth it - the other templates by the MOW team
> >>>>>>illustrate the same thing but do it better.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>I'm not follow you very well. Can you explain to us what you meant?
> >>>>>What is wrong with things which Mugurs/Mow templates illustrate? What it
> >>>>>miss?
> >>>>>Topic on SummerCamp was that Mugurs templates are good and that they
> >>>>>need just some better design. Sava asked us to do that and Boban and I
> >>>>>spent a lot of time to do that (we preserved Mugurs templates and add
> >>>>>new layout).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>There's nothing wrong with the MOW templates - they work well and look
> >>>>very nice. Its only the fastnews template that had problems.
> >>>>
> >>>>- Paul
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>__________________________________
> >>>Yahoo! Music Unlimited
> >>>Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
> >>>http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
>





__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

As I understand it, Paul was not for a moment advocating the removal of
Ana's excellent templates. He wanted to retired the OLD fastnews
templates, the ones with no CSS and no RSS.

Regarding the templates that I made, I was trying for a rather different
'clean and light' look a la Google News or the typical blog, to show the
range of what's possible. I also wanted a site which behaved well when
the text zoom was increased significantly, since on a high-res monitor
many news sites don't scale up so well, and this would be an
accessibility issue for old people as well. I've still got some ongoing
work on RSS, printbox and stats gathering that I'm working on with these
templates as well.

I hope we can get some kind of template library to evolve -- it would
help people a lot when setting up new sites not to have to go up the
learning curve quite so quickly with Campsite. It's a fair bit to learn
if you have to write the templates from scratch. It should be a case of
offering people as many different options as possible. The more choices
we offer, the less tweaking they'll have to do, and the more impressed
they will be by Campsite from the visual point of view.

JP

Mugur Rus wrote:

>Ok, I've seen them both and I still like Ana's fastnews templates more. So I'm
>still against switching them.
>
>Mugur
>
>--- John Pye wrote:
>
>
>>My templates are at http://campsite.jdpipe.dyndns.org/ when my home
>>computer is turned on.
>>
>>JP
>>
>>Mugur Rus wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Paul, as I understand you want to retire the templates you ca see here:
>>>http://cs-dev.campware.org
>>>
>>>and replace them with John's templates. Ok, please show me John's templates,
>>>I'd like to have a say too.
>>>
>>>Mugur
>>>
>>>--- Paul Baranowski wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The packages I am NOT talking about are the MOW demo sites. These are
>>>>the ones pictured here:
>>>>http://www.campware.org/en/camp/campsite_news/622/
>>>>
>>>>We are going to keep those.
>>>>
>>>>The package I am talking about is the one that used to be called
>>>>demo-package-2.3.tar.gz. When you installed it, it said in big bold
>>>>letters "Fast News" at the top of the front page (the new MOW templates
>>>>say "Packaged Template #" at the top.)
>>>>
>>>>- Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Mugur Rus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Paul, are you talking about MOW fastnews templates? Or the old fastnews
>>>>>templates (before Ana improved them)?
>>>>>
>>>>>If you're talking about the first set I do not agree. While I agree to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>retire
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>the old fastnews templates because they are ugly (although they work!!!) I
>>>>>can't agree to retire the improved templates.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mugur
>>>>>
>>>>>--- Paul Baranowski wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Ana Nedic wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'm going to retire the old fastnews templates because they dont work,
>>>>>>>>and fixing them isnt worth it - the other templates by the MOW team
>>>>>>>>illustrate the same thing but do it better.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm not follow you very well. Can you explain to us what you meant?
>>>>>>>What is wrong with things which Mugurs/Mow templates illustrate? What it
>>>>>>>miss?
>>>>>>>Topic on SummerCamp was that Mugurs templates are good and that they
>>>>>>>need just some better design. Sava asked us to do that and Boban and I
>>>>>>>spent a lot of time to do that (we preserved Mugurs templates and add
>>>>>>>new layout).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>There's nothing wrong with the MOW templates - they work well and look
>>>>>>very nice. Its only the fastnews template that had problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>__________________________________
>>>>>Yahoo! Music Unlimited
>>>>>Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
>>>>>http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>__________________________________
>>>Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
>>>http://mail.yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>

Ana Nedic wrote:
> I would like to remind you that:
> Fastnews templates are for educative purpose, and Package templates are
> demo templates (ready for use). So, in that case, it is not important if
> some parts of Fastnews tmpl are static (intro) or not, it is for
> learning. Even, if somebody would like to use that, it is rather easy to
> change that in html and their purpose.

It is *very* important that the articles were static in the old fastnews
templates, precisely because they were learning templates. The users
will learn the wrong way to do things. And I tried changing the HTML -
I ended up rewriting everything. It wasnt easy. If I have trouble,
then a newbie is going to have an even harder time. It would be easier
for me to start over to create a new learning template than to fix the
old one, which I would have done had we not already had 5 other sample
templates.

- Paul

Ana Nedic wrote:
> I fully agree with you John that Fastnews tmpls should have implemented
> all possibilities that Campsite have. But, at the moment, Campsite does
> not have RSS, printbox, resize letters,

Campsite does have these three things.

> pool, comments, forum or similar
> modules and scripts,

These things arent in Johns templates.

> It is not ok to impress users with something that Campsite does not have
> at the moment instead to offer them clear way to understand and learn
> how Campsite functioning.

We're not showing them something that campsite doesnt have. There
doesnt have to be a trade off between showing features and showing the
user how to use the template language. A working template educates the
user on how to use the template language.

- Paul

Hi Ana,

Ana Nedic wrote:

> I fully agree with you John that Fastnews tmpls should have
> implemented all possibilities that Campsite have. But, at the moment,
> Campsite does not have RSS

Outgoing RSS 2.0 feeds can be implemented using the PHP files which I
previously submitted.

> , printbox,

Is still under development. Works fine for sites which don't have
subscriber-only sections, at this stage.

> resize letters,

This is simply a little CSS and Javascript. Not something that requires
campsite features.

> pool,

Not sure what you mean by this?

> comments,

This is under development by Paul, I think. But you're right, not
supported yet.

> forum

As I understand it, a forum (using software called 'phorum') was
implemented on the old campware.org via phpwrapper, so it's possible.
Not sure on current status.

> or similar modules and scripts,

We just gotta write 'em eh. Campsite does a lot of very useful 'core'
stuff and is expanding all the time. So please, turn that frown upside
down

> It is not ok to impress users with something that Campsite does not
> have at the moment instead to offer them clear way to understand and
> learn how Campsite functioning.

We obviously want to make campsite as easy to use as posssible. But
having said that, we also want to show that campsite can be used for
sites even big ones offering the fancy features. You might need as
sysadmin to set all this up, but it can be done, and without the need
for reinventing the wheel. So I think it's perfectly valid to impress
users in this way.

Yes, if you install John's templates.


Ana Nedic wrote:
> Are you saying that if I now dowload Campsite and install it on my comp
> and without doing some additional work (html tidy, or writing
> addditional scripts like CSS or Java, etc.) on it I will have RSS,
> printbox, resize letters and anything else you said cs have it?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Pye"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 5:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [campsite-dev] fastnews is dead, long live fastnews
>
>
>> Hi Ana,
>>
>> Ana Nedic wrote:
>>
>>> I fully agree with you John that Fastnews tmpls should have
>>> implemented all possibilities that Campsite have. But, at the moment,
>>> Campsite does not have RSS
>>
>>
>> Outgoing RSS 2.0 feeds can be implemented using the PHP files which I
>> previously submitted.
>>
>>> , printbox,
>>
>>
>> Is still under development. Works fine for sites which don't have
>> subscriber-only sections, at this stage.
>>
>>> resize letters,
>>
>>
>> This is simply a little CSS and Javascript. Not something that requires
>> campsite features.
>>
>>> pool,
>>
>>
>> Not sure what you mean by this?
>>
>>> comments,
>>
>>
>> This is under development by Paul, I think. But you're right, not
>> supported yet.
>>
>>> forum
>>
>>
>> As I understand it, a forum (using software called 'phorum') was
>> implemented on the old campware.org via phpwrapper, so it's possible.
>> Not sure on current status.
>>
>>> or similar modules and scripts,
>>
>>
>> We just gotta write 'em eh. Campsite does a lot of very useful 'core'
>> stuff and is expanding all the time. So please, turn that frown upside
>> down
>>
>>> It is not ok to impress users with something that Campsite does not
>>> have at the moment instead to offer them clear way to understand and
>>> learn how Campsite functioning.
>>
>>
>> We obviously want to make campsite as easy to use as posssible. But
>> having said that, we also want to show that campsite can be used for
>> sites even big ones offering the fancy features. You might need as
>> sysadmin to set all this up, but it can be done, and without the need
>> for reinventing the wheel. So I think it's perfectly valid to impress
>> users in this way.
>>
>
>

Ok, I see your point Paul. Although Ana's templates look nicer they lack some
educational features - which is not her fault by the way, because she had the
task of just improving the look of the old fastnews templates.

Mugur

--- Paul Baranowski wrote:
> Yes, if you install John's templates.
>
>
> Ana Nedic wrote:
> > Are you saying that if I now dowload Campsite and install it on my comp
> > and without doing some additional work (html tidy, or writing
> > addditional scripts like CSS or Java, etc.) on it I will have RSS,
> > printbox, resize letters and anything else you said cs have it?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Pye"
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 5:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: [campsite-dev] fastnews is dead, long live fastnews
> >
> >
> >> Hi Ana,
> >>
> >> Ana Nedic wrote:
> >>
> >>> I fully agree with you John that Fastnews tmpls should have
> >>> implemented all possibilities that Campsite have. But, at the moment,
> >>> Campsite does not have RSS
> >>
> >>
> >> Outgoing RSS 2.0 feeds can be implemented using the PHP files which I
> >> previously submitted.
> >>
> >>> , printbox,
> >>
> >>
> >> Is still under development. Works fine for sites which don't have
> >> subscriber-only sections, at this stage.
> >>
> >>> resize letters,
> >>
> >>
> >> This is simply a little CSS and Javascript. Not something that requires
> >> campsite features.
> >>
> >>> pool,
> >>
> >>
> >> Not sure what you mean by this?
> >>
> >>> comments,
> >>
> >>
> >> This is under development by Paul, I think. But you're right, not
> >> supported yet.
> >>
> >>> forum
> >>
> >>
> >> As I understand it, a forum (using software called 'phorum') was
> >> implemented on the old campware.org via phpwrapper, so it's possible.
> >> Not sure on current status.
> >>
> >>> or similar modules and scripts,
> >>
> >>
> >> We just gotta write 'em eh. Campsite does a lot of very useful 'core'
> >> stuff and is expanding all the time. So please, turn that frown upside
> >> down
> >>
> >>> It is not ok to impress users with something that Campsite does not
> >>> have at the moment instead to offer them clear way to understand and
> >>> learn how Campsite functioning.
> >>
> >>
> >> We obviously want to make campsite as easy to use as posssible. But
> >> having said that, we also want to show that campsite can be used for
> >> sites even big ones offering the fancy features. You might need as
> >> sysadmin to set all this up, but it can be done, and without the need
> >> for reinventing the wheel. So I think it's perfectly valid to impress
> >> users in this way.
> >>
> >
> >
>
>




__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/