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[campsite-dev] Do clients have PHP XML libraries loaded?
  • Is it safe to assume that the current campsite client base has the PHP
    XML libraries installed so that I can use functions like:

    xml_parser_create()

    ???

    - Paul

    ------------------------------------------
    Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
  • 8 Comments sorted by
  • Sure, if they don't have the XML libraries installed they will, after all we
    can't write them from scratch for them.

    Mugur

    --- Paul Baranowski wrote:
    > Is it safe to assume that the current campsite client base has the PHP
    > XML libraries installed so that I can use functions like:
    >
    > xml_parser_create()
    >
    > ???
    >
    > - Paul




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    ------------------------------------------
    Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
  • I've just checked the Red Hat 9 binary RPM version of PHP 4.2.2, and
    expat XML parser 1.95.5 is built-in in that version. FYI, that version
    also includes the domxml extension, WDDX, and GD 1.6.2, amongst other
    things. You might want to check the binary packages for other platforms.

    JP

    Paul Baranowski wrote:

    > Is it safe to assume that the current campsite client base has the PHP
    > XML libraries installed so that I can use functions like:
    >
    > xml_parser_create()

    ------------------------------------------
    Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
  • This is a multipart message in MIME format.
    --=_alternative 002D72D8C1256EC8_=
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

    Hi folks,

    I'd say the formats, in order of their importance, are:

    1) NewsML (yes, it is overkill in terms of the number of possible metadata
    tags, but it is also the most comprehensive for professional news work

    2) RSS 2.0 (more flexible, and the tag will mean some
    interesting things in the future)

    3) RSS 0.91 (most widespread support. As John put it, the Lingua Franca of
    syndication)

    4) Atom (up-and-coming, but as far as I can tell, uptake is limited to the
    Blogger A-list; we should support it, but the question is whether it needs
    to be there for 2.2 or if it can wait)

    I like John's idea of using XSLT to transform the feeds into whatever we
    need; I'm not a developer (I just shake people's hands and hand out
    business cards), but I'd bet there will be more of these syndication
    formats to come, and if we can build flexibility into our architecture as
    opposed to "hard-wiring" support for one format or another, I'd say we're
    better off.

    doug






    John Pye
    07/05/2004 04:06 AM
    Please respond to campsite-dev


    To: campsite-dev@campware.org
    cc:
    Subject: Re: [campsite-dev] Do clients have PHP XML libraries loaded?


    I've just checked the Red Hat 9 binary RPM version of PHP 4.2.2, and
    expat XML parser 1.95.5 is built-in in that version. FYI, that version
    also includes the domxml extension, WDDX, and GD 1.6.2, amongst other
    things. You might want to check the binary packages for other platforms.

    JP

    Paul Baranowski wrote:

    > Is it safe to assume that the current campsite client base has the PHP
    > XML libraries installed so that I can use functions like:
    >
    > xml_parser_create()





    --=_alternative 002D72D8C1256EC8_=
    Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"



    Hi folks,



    I'd say the formats, in order of their importance, are:



    1) NewsML (yes, it is overkill in terms of the number of possible metadata tags, but it is also the most comprehensive for professional news work



    2) RSS 2.0 (more flexible, and the <enclosures> tag will mean some interesting things in the future)



    3) RSS 0.91 (most widespread support. As John put it, the Lingua Franca of syndication)



    4) Atom (up-and-coming, but as far as I can tell, uptake is limited to the Blogger A-list; we should support it, but the question is whether it needs to be there for 2.2 or if it can wait)



    I like John's idea of using XSLT to transform the feeds into whatever we need; I'm not a developer (I just shake people's hands and hand out business cards), but I'd bet there will be more of these syndication formats to come, and if we can build flexibility into our architecture as opposed to "hard-wiring" support for one format or another, I'd say we're better off.



    doug













    John Pye <john@curioussymbols.com>

    07/05/2004 04:06 AM

    Please respond to campsite-dev


           

            To:        campsite-dev@campware.org

            cc:        

            Subject:        Re: [campsite-dev] Do clients have PHP XML libraries loaded?






    I've just checked the Red Hat 9 binary RPM version of PHP 4.2.2, and

    expat XML parser 1.95.5 is built-in in that version. FYI, that version

    also includes the domxml extension, WDDX, and GD 1.6.2, amongst other

    things. You might want to check the binary packages for other platforms.



    JP



    Paul Baranowski wrote:



    > Is it safe to assume that the current campsite client base has the PHP

    > XML libraries installed so that I can use functions like:

    >

    > xml_parser_create()










    --=_alternative 002D72D8C1256EC8_=--

    ------------------------------------------
    Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail







  • The feature that I am developing is for import of articles.  You might
    be thinking of article export from your comments below - for example,
    XSLT only helps us for article export.  RSS 0.91 and 2.0 do not support
    content, so it cannot be used for article import.  We could use the
    optional mod_content tag for RSS and use that for article import if we
    wanted, but I'm not sure how well this is supported.  The new
    "enclosure" tag in RSS 2.0 only points to external files, and does not
    contain data itself.



    If anyone can provide me with more use case scenarios, it would greatly
    help the development of this feature.  As far as I know, there are two:


    1) Someone types up an article in the required format, or uses some
    sort of software that automatically creates the format, and then
    uploads the article to the server.

    2) The campsite server reads a feed from another server and adds the
    articles to its database.



    Under scenario #1, NewsML might
    be an incredibly daunting format for our users if they are typing it in
    by hand.  That's why we were thinking of Atom - a
    very simple format that can be written by hand and is being actively
    developed. 



    I understand that the feature should not be tied to a particular
    format, and the code will be written so that new formats can be
    implemented later.  



    - Paul







    Douglas.Arellanes@mdlf.org wrote:
    cite="midOFD4866ECE.5716A63E-ONC1256EC8.002CFC6E-C1256EC8.002D72E0@mdlf.org"
    type="cite">

    Hi folks,




    I'd say the formats, in order of
    their importance, are:





    1) NewsML (yes, it is overkill in
    terms of the number of possible metadata tags, but it is also the most
    comprehensive for professional news work





    2) RSS 2.0 (more flexible, and the
    <enclosures> tag will mean some interesting things in the future)





    3) RSS 0.91 (most widespread
    support. As John put it, the Lingua Franca of syndication)





    4) Atom (up-and-coming, but as far
    as I can tell, uptake is limited to the Blogger A-list; we should
    support it, but the question is whether it needs to be there for 2.2 or
    if it can wait)





    I like John's idea of using XSLT to
    transform the feeds into whatever we need; I'm not a developer (I just
    shake people's hands and hand out business cards), but I'd bet there
    will be more of these syndication formats to come, and if we can build
    flexibility into our architecture as opposed to "hard-wiring" support
    for one format or another, I'd say we're better off.





    doug








    ------------------------------------------
    Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail







  • More about the reason for scenario (1)? Is it just so that writers can
    work offline?



    If you just want to import basic formatted text (bold, italic, etc) you
    can import HTML generated by Word, then transform it to the syntax you
    require using XSLT after the file is uploaded. (You could do direct
    transformation of uploaded OpenOffice files (*.sxw) cause they are
    already in zipped XML form.) Mozilla Composer is another tool to think
    about as well, for composing HTML.



    If you want to import more complex stuff then maybe you need to set up
    your users with an XML editor. I used to use XML Spy and some other
    ones a while back; there are some very espensive/impressive pieces of
    software out there (eg href="http://www.arbortext.com/products/ee_close_up.htm">Arbortext),
    but recently some open source alternatives have appeared. Pollo was the
    most robust I could find with a quick survey.

    http://pollo.sourceforge.net/

    http://www.xerlin.org/



    My experience with getting writers to work with XML was that
    non-programmers don't handle any XML very well, and it's best to give
    them a tool to help them, but even then they might struggle.



    XSLT does have the potential to help in article upload. You could
    hard-code for NewsML import, then transform any uploaded Atom content
    into something that NewsML can understand. Probably you could implement
    a subset of NewsML, eg ignore all the audio/video stuff. Or maybe Atom
    is indeed adequate.



    JP



    Paul Baranowski wrote:




    The feature that I am developing is for import of articles.  You might
    be thinking of article export from your comments below - for example,
    XSLT only helps us for article export.  RSS 0.91 and 2.0 do not support
    content, so it cannot be used for article import.  We could use the
    optional mod_content tag for RSS and use that for article import if we
    wanted, but I'm not sure how well this is supported.  The new
    "enclosure" tag in RSS 2.0 only points to external files, and does not
    contain data itself.



    If anyone can provide me with more use case scenarios, it would greatly
    help the development of this feature.  As far as I know, there are two:


    1) Someone types up an article in the required format, or uses some
    sort of software that automatically creates the format, and then
    uploads the article to the server.

    2) The campsite server reads a feed from another server and adds the
    articles to its database.



    Under scenario #1, NewsML might
    be an incredibly daunting format for our users if they are typing it in
    by hand.  That's why we were thinking of Atom - a
    very simple format that can be written by hand and is being actively
    developed. 



    I understand that the feature should not be tied to a particular
    format, and the code will be written so that new formats can be
    implemented later.  



    - Paul







    ------------------------------------------
    Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
  • This is a multipart message in MIME format.
    --=_alternative 00184943C1256ECA_=
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

    Hi Paul,

    I understand your question, and will try to give you a bit more feedback
    on the usage.

    1) Manual input is kind of misleading because the vast majority of people
    will never actually create an article for automatic input "by hand," and
    will most likely use a Word macro (or its OpenOffice equivalent) to
    prepare their text, provided they use a template that is pre-formatted for
    them.

    2) Article syndication will first be used in the SNOW project, where we
    know a few things about the users and their Campsite instances; because we
    are operating their hosting, we are in control of the Campsite version and
    all aspects of the server instance. While this may not be a huge
    advantage, we do know that the sites won't be using non-standard Campsite
    fields.

    3) The issue of non-standard fields is one that may present problems for
    any of the syndication interchange formats. How will a user map the fields
    they have installed (and call from all their templates) to match the input
    coming from the syndication format, be it NewsML or Atom or whatever? I
    don't have a problem with Atom as our interchange format of choice, but I
    would much rather see us come up with a solution that is format-neutral
    when it comes to interchange. If Atom provides the best fit with standard
    Campsite fields, so be it. But ideally, what we come up with would be
    flexible enough to use any of the popular interchange formats. Besides, as
    I understand it, none of these formats map perfectly, so some shoehorning
    will be necessary.

    4) The use scenario I have in mind is this: I would like to see Campsite
    provide integration with weblogs. Let's say a news site like TOL finds a
    weblogger they think is interesting, and want to syndicate their content.
    The problem is that the content as it's written on their weblog is too
    local and needs rewriting for TOL's audience. Because the content from the
    weblog is integrated into Campsite workflow - and I'm being deliberately
    vague on the mechanics of how this is done - editors can work on the text
    just as with any other "submitted" article. For me, what's key is that all
    of the content make it into Campsite.

    NewsML input is important because a couple of different clients have
    discussed the possibility of connecting their Campsites to a Reuters feed,
    which comes in NewsML. In this scenario, the incoming article would
    probably be marked automatically as "Published" and go straight out on to
    the site, otherwise the list of submitted articles would probably be too
    big.

    Other use scenarios that don't fit the typical article paradigm but could
    turn into important ones would be in commercial content: there are two
    uses that come to mind: one is classified ads (personals, job listings,
    real estate listings) that are created by a central site and carried by a
    number of sites, and the other, probably less likely one is a bookstore
    application (or maybe even the Digital Kiosk 2.0) that would provide
    ordering and product information directly to the Campsite server, and
    handle only the transaction.

    Out on the horizon a bit further into the future lies what Sava has
    referred to as "the Supercontentor" - essentially a Campsite-like
    application that would be at the core of a publication's print production.
    Many of the NewsML tags would probably find more use in that situation,
    but we'll have to take that as it comes.


    Hope this helps,

    doug

    =============================================
    Media Development Loan Fund
    =============================================
    Douglas Arellanes
    Head of Research and Development
    Center for Advanced Media--Prague (CAMP)
    Na vinicnich horach 24a/1834, 160 00 Prague 6
    Czech Republic
    Tel: + 420 2 3333 5356, Fax: +420 2 2431 5419
    Mobile: +420 724 073 364
    http://www.mdlf-camp.net
    http://www.campware.org
    =============================================
    http://www.mdlf.org
    =============================================




    Paul Baranowski
    07/05/2004 07:14 PM
    Please respond to campsite-dev


    To: campsite-dev@campware.org
    cc:
    Subject: Re: [campsite-dev] Which format to use?


    The feature that I am developing is for import of articles. You might be
    thinking of article export from your comments below - for example, XSLT
    only helps us for article export. RSS 0.91 and 2.0 do not support
    content, so it cannot be used for article import. We could use the
    optional mod_content tag for RSS and use that for article import if we
    wanted, but I'm not sure how well this is supported. The new "enclosure"
    tag in RSS 2.0 only points to external files, and does not contain data
    itself.

    If anyone can provide me with more use case scenarios, it would greatly
    help the development of this feature. As far as I know, there are two:
    1) Someone types up an article in the required format, or uses some sort
    of software that automatically creates the format, and then uploads the
    article to the server.
    2) The campsite server reads a feed from another server and adds the
    articles to its database.

    Under scenario #1, NewsML might be an incredibly daunting format for our
    users if they are typing it in by hand. That's why we were thinking of
    Atom - a very simple format that can be written by hand and is being
    actively developed.

    I understand that the feature should not be tied to a particular format,
    and the code will be written so that new formats can be implemented later.


    - Paul



    Douglas.Arellanes@mdlf.org wrote:

    Hi folks,

    I'd say the formats, in order of their importance, are:

    1) NewsML (yes, it is overkill in terms of the number of possible metadata
    tags, but it is also the most comprehensive for professional news work

    2) RSS 2.0 (more flexible, and the tag will mean some
    interesting things in the future)

    3) RSS 0.91 (most widespread support. As John put it, the Lingua Franca of
    syndication)

    4) Atom (up-and-coming, but as far as I can tell, uptake is limited to the
    Blogger A-list; we should support it, but the question is whether it needs
    to be there for 2.2 or if it can wait)

    I like John's idea of using XSLT to transform the feeds into whatever we
    need; I'm not a developer (I just shake people's hands and hand out
    business cards), but I'd bet there will be more of these syndication
    formats to come, and if we can build flexibility into our architecture as
    opposed to "hard-wiring" support for one format or another, I'd say we're
    better off.

    doug



    --=_alternative 00184943C1256ECA_=
    Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"



    Hi Paul,



    I understand your question, and will try to give you a bit more feedback on the usage.



    1) Manual input is kind of misleading because the vast majority of people will never actually create an article for automatic input "by hand," and will most likely use a Word macro (or its OpenOffice equivalent) to prepare their text, provided they use a template that is pre-formatted for them.



    2) Article syndication will first be used in the SNOW project, where we know a few things about the users and their Campsite instances; because we are operating their hosting, we are in control of the Campsite version and all aspects of the server instance. While this may not be a huge advantage, we do know that the sites won't be using non-standard Campsite fields.



    3) The issue of non-standard fields is one that may present problems for any of the syndication interchange formats. How will a user map the fields they have installed (and call from all their templates) to match the input coming from the syndication format, be it NewsML or Atom or whatever? I don't have a problem with Atom as our interchange format of choice, but I would much rather see us come up with a solution that is format-neutral when it comes to interchange. If Atom provides the best fit with standard Campsite fields, so be it. But ideally, what we come up with would be flexible enough to use any of the popular interchange formats. Besides, as I understand it, none of these formats map perfectly, so some shoehorning will be necessary.



    4) The use scenario I have in mind is this: I would like to see Campsite provide integration with weblogs. Let's say a news site like TOL finds a weblogger they think is interesting, and want to syndicate their content. The problem is that the content as it's written on their weblog is too local and needs rewriting for TOL's audience. Because the content from the weblog is integrated into Campsite workflow - and I'm being deliberately vague on the mechanics of how this is done - editors can work on the text just as with any other "submitted" article. For me, what's key is that all of the content make it into Campsite.



    NewsML input is important because a couple of different clients have discussed the possibility of connecting their Campsites to a Reuters feed, which comes in NewsML. In this scenario, the incoming article would probably be marked automatically as "Published" and go straight out on to the site, otherwise the list of submitted articles would probably be too big.



    Other use scenarios that don't fit the typical article paradigm but could turn into important ones would be in commercial content: there are two uses that come to mind: one is classified ads (personals, job listings, real estate listings) that are created by a central site and carried by a number of sites, and the other, probably less likely one is a bookstore application (or maybe even the Digital Kiosk 2.0) that would provide ordering and product information directly to the Campsite server, and handle only the transaction.



    Out on the horizon a bit further into the future lies what Sava has referred to as "the Supercontentor" - essentially a Campsite-like application that would be at the core of a publication's print production. Many of the NewsML tags would probably find more use in that situation, but we'll have to take that as it comes.





    Hope this helps,



    doug



    =============================================

    Media Development Loan Fund

    =============================================

    Douglas Arellanes

    Head of Research and Development

    Center for Advanced Media--Prague (CAMP)

    Na vinicnich horach 24a/1834, 160 00  Prague 6

    Czech Republic

    Tel: + 420 2 3333 5356, Fax: +420 2 2431 5419

    Mobile: +420 724 073 364

    http://www.mdlf-camp.net

    http://www.campware.org

    =============================================

    http://www.mdlf.org

    =============================================










    Paul Baranowski <paul@paulbaranowski.org>

    07/05/2004 07:14 PM

    Please respond to campsite-dev


           

            To:        campsite-dev@campware.org

            cc:        

            Subject:        Re: [campsite-dev] Which format to use?






    The feature that I am developing is for import of articles.  You might be thinking of article export from your comments below - for example, XSLT only helps us for article export.  RSS 0.91 and 2.0 do not support content, so it cannot be used for article import.  We could use the optional mod_content tag for RSS and use that for article import if we wanted, but I'm not sure how well this is supported.  The new "enclosure" tag in RSS 2.0 only points to external files, and does not contain data itself.



    If anyone can provide me with more use case scenarios, it would greatly help the development of this feature.  As far as I know, there are two:

    1) Someone types up an article in the required format, or uses some sort of software that automatically creates the format, and then uploads the article to the server.

    2) The campsite server reads a feed from another server and adds the articles to its database.



    Under scenario #1, NewsML might be an incredibly daunting format for our users if they are typing it in by hand.  That's why we were thinking of Atom - a very simple format that can be written by hand and is being actively developed.  



    I understand that the feature should not be tied to a particular format, and the code will be written so that new formats can be implemented later.  



    - Paul







    Douglas.Arellanes@mdlf.org wrote:



    Hi folks,




    I'd say the formats, in order of their importance, are:




    1) NewsML (yes, it is overkill in terms of the number of possible metadata tags, but it is also the most comprehensive for professional news work




    2) RSS 2.0 (more flexible, and the <enclosures> tag will mean some interesting things in the future)




    3) RSS 0.91 (most widespread support. As John put it, the Lingua Franca of syndication)




    4) Atom (up-and-coming, but as far as I can tell, uptake is limited to the Blogger A-list; we should support it, but the question is whether it needs to be there for 2.2 or if it can wait)




    I like John's idea of using XSLT to transform the feeds into whatever we need; I'm not a developer (I just shake people's hands and hand out business cards), but I'd bet there will be more of these syndication formats to come, and if we can build flexibility into our architecture as opposed to "hard-wiring" support for one format or another, I'd say we're better off.




    doug







    --=_alternative 00184943C1256ECA_=--

    ------------------------------------------
    Posted to Phorum via PhorumMail
  • Hi all,

    It seems to me that NewsML would be much more useful than Atom but the issue is
    Paul needs about a month to implement the feature + the Atom filter. If you
    want the NewsML filter implemented first the deadline should be postponed and
    Paul should let us know how much.

    Mugur

    --- Douglas.Arellanes@mdlf.org wrote:
    > Hi Paul,
    >
    > I understand your question, and will try to give you a bit more feedback
    > on the usage.
    >
    > 1) Manual input is kind of misleading because the vast majority of people
    > will never actually create an article for automatic input "by hand," and
    > will most likely use a Word macro (or its OpenOffice equivalent) to
    > prepare their text, provided they use a template that is pre-formatted for
    > them.
    >
    > 2) Article syndication will first be used in the SNOW project, where we
    > know a few things about the users and their Campsite instances; because we
    > are operating their hosting, we are in control of the Campsite version and
    > all aspects of the server instance. While this may not be a huge
    > advantage, we do know that the sites won't be using non-standard Campsite
    > fields.
    >
    > 3) The issue of non-standard fields is one that may present problems for
    > any of the syndication interchange formats. How will a user map the fields
    > they have installed (and call from all their templates) to match the input
    > coming from the syndication format, be it NewsML or Atom or whatever? I
    > don't have a problem with Atom as our interchange format of choice, but I
    > would much rather see us come up with a solution that is format-neutral
    > when it comes to interchange. If Atom provides the best fit with standard
    > Campsite fields, so be it. But ideally, what we come up with would be
    > flexible enough to use any of the popular interchange formats. Besides, as
    > I understand it, none of these formats map perfectly, so some shoehorning
    > will be necessary.
    >
    > 4) The use scenario I have in mind is this: I would like to see Campsite
    > provide integration with weblogs. Let's say a news site like TOL finds a
    > weblogger they think is interesting, and want to syndicate their content.
    > The problem is that the content as it's written on their weblog is too
    > local and needs rewriting for TOL's audience. Because the content from the
    > weblog is integrated into Campsite workflow - and I'm being deliberately
    > vague on the mechanics of how this is done - editors can work on the text
    > just as with any other "submitted" article. For me, what's key is that all
    > of the content make it into Campsite.
    >
    > NewsML input is important because a couple of different clients have
    > discussed the possibility of connecting their Campsites to a Reuters feed,
    > which comes in NewsML. In this scenario, the incoming article would
    > probably be marked automatically as "Published" and go straight out on to
    > the site, otherwise the list of submitted articles would probably be too
    > big.
    >
    > Other use scenarios that don't fit the typical article paradigm but could
    > turn into important ones would be in commercial content: there are two
    > uses that come to mind: one is classified ads (personals, job listings,
    > real estate listings) that are created by a central site and carried by a
    > number of sites, and the other, probably less likely one is a bookstore
    > application (or maybe even the Digital Kiosk 2.0) that would provide
    > ordering and product information directly to the Campsite server, and
    > handle only the transaction.
    >
    > Out on the horizon a bit further into the future lies what Sava has
    > referred to as "the Supercontentor" - essentially a Campsite-like
    > application that would be at the core of a publication's print production.
    > Many of the NewsML tags would probably find more use in that situation,
    > but we'll have to take that as it comes.
    >
    >
    > Hope this helps,
    >
    > doug
    >
    > =============================================
    > Media Development Loan Fund
    > =============================================
    > Douglas Arellanes
    > Head of Research and Development
    > Center for Advanced Media--Prague (CAMP)
    > Na vinicnich horach 24a/1834, 160 00 Prague 6
    > Czech Republic
    > Tel: + 420 2 3333 5356, Fax: +420 2 2431 5419
    > Mobile: +420 724 073 364
    > http://www.mdlf-camp.net
    > http://www.campware.org
    > =============================================
    > http://www.mdlf.org
    > =============================================
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Paul Baranowski
    > 07/05/2004 07:14 PM
    > Please respond to campsite-dev
    >
    >
    > To: campsite-dev@campware.org
    > cc:
    > Subject: Re: [campsite-dev] Which format to use?
    >
    >
    > The feature that I am developing is for import of articles. You might be
    > thinking of article export from your comments below - for example, XSLT
    > only helps us for article export. RSS 0.91 and 2.0 do not support
    > content, so it cannot be used for article import. We could use the
    > optional mod_content tag for RSS and use that for article import if we
    > wanted, but I'm not sure how well this is supported. The new "enclosure"
    > tag in RSS 2.0 only points to external files, and does not contain data
    > itself.
    >
    > If anyone can provide me with more use case scenarios, it would greatly
    > help the development of this feature. As far as I know, there are two:
    > 1) Someone types up an article in the required format, or uses some sort
    > of software that automatically creates the format, and then uploads the
    > article to the server.
    > 2) The campsite server reads a feed from another server and adds the
    > articles to its database.
    >
    > Under scenario #1, NewsML might be an incredibly daunting format for our
    > users if they are typing it in by hand. That's why we were thinking of
    > Atom - a very simple format that can be written by hand and is being
    > actively developed.
    >
    > I understand that the feature should not be tied to a particular format,
    > and the code will be written so that new formats can be implemented later.
    >
    >
    > - Paul
    >
    >
    >
    > Douglas.Arellanes@mdlf.org wrote:
    >
    > Hi folks,
    >
    > I'd say the formats, in order of their importance, are:
    >
    > 1) NewsML (yes, it is overkill in terms of the number of possible metadata
    > tags, but it is also the most comprehensive for professional news work
    >
    > 2) RSS 2.0 (more flexible, and the tag will mean some
    > interesting things in the future)
    >
    > 3) RSS 0.91 (most widespread support. As John put it, the Lingua Franca of
    > syndication)
    >
    > 4) Atom (up-and-coming, but as far as I can tell, uptake is limited to the
    > Blogger A-list; we should support it, but the question is whether it needs
    > to be there for 2.2 or if it can wait)
    >
    > I like John's idea of using XSLT to transform the feeds into whatever we
    > need; I'm not a developer (I just shake people's hands and hand out
    > business cards), but I'd bet there will be more of these syndication
    > formats to come, and if we can build flexibility into our architecture as
    > opposed to "hard-wiring" support for one format or another, I'd say we're
    > better off.
    >
    > doug
    >
    >
    >




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    I'd still hold out for NewsML, but we'll need to get Sava's approval on
    Monday for the final go-ahead.

    doug





    Mugur Rus
    07/07/2004 04:42 PM
    Please respond to campsite-dev


    To: campsite-dev@campware.org
    cc:
    Subject: Re: [campsite-dev] Which format to use?


    Hi all,

    It seems to me that NewsML would be much more useful than Atom but the
    issue is
    Paul needs about a month to implement the feature + the Atom filter. If
    you
    want the NewsML filter implemented first the deadline should be postponed
    and
    Paul should let us know how much.

    Mugur

    --- Douglas.Arellanes@mdlf.org wrote:
    > Hi Paul,
    >
    > I understand your question, and will try to give you a bit more feedback

    > on the usage.
    >
    > 1) Manual input is kind of misleading because the vast majority of
    people
    > will never actually create an article for automatic input "by hand," and

    > will most likely use a Word macro (or its OpenOffice equivalent) to
    > prepare their text, provided they use a template that is pre-formatted
    for
    > them.
    >
    > 2) Article syndication will first be used in the SNOW project, where we
    > know a few things about the users and their Campsite instances; because
    we
    > are operating their hosting, we are in control of the Campsite version
    and
    > all aspects of the server instance. While this may not be a huge
    > advantage, we do know that the sites won't be using non-standard
    Campsite
    > fields.
    >
    > 3) The issue of non-standard fields is one that may present problems for

    > any of the syndication interchange formats. How will a user map the
    fields
    > they have installed (and call from all their templates) to match the
    input
    > coming from the syndication format, be it NewsML or Atom or whatever? I
    > don't have a problem with Atom as our interchange format of choice, but
    I
    > would much rather see us come up with a solution that is format-neutral
    > when it comes to interchange. If Atom provides the best fit with
    standard
    > Campsite fields, so be it. But ideally, what we come up with would be
    > flexible enough to use any of the popular interchange formats. Besides,
    as
    > I understand it, none of these formats map perfectly, so some
    shoehorning
    > will be necessary.
    >
    > 4) The use scenario I have in mind is this: I would like to see Campsite

    > provide integration with weblogs. Let's say a news site like TOL finds a

    > weblogger they think is interesting, and want to syndicate their
    content.
    > The problem is that the content as it's written on their weblog is too
    > local and needs rewriting for TOL's audience. Because the content from
    the
    > weblog is integrated into Campsite workflow - and I'm being deliberately

    > vague on the mechanics of how this is done - editors can work on the
    text
    > just as with any other "submitted" article. For me, what's key is that
    all
    > of the content make it into Campsite.
    >
    > NewsML input is important because a couple of different clients have
    > discussed the possibility of connecting their Campsites to a Reuters
    feed,
    > which comes in NewsML. In this scenario, the incoming article would
    > probably be marked automatically as "Published" and go straight out on
    to
    > the site, otherwise the list of submitted articles would probably be too

    > big.
    >
    > Other use scenarios that don't fit the typical article paradigm but
    could
    > turn into important ones would be in commercial content: there are two
    > uses that come to mind: one is classified ads (personals, job listings,
    > real estate listings) that are created by a central site and carried by
    a
    > number of sites, and the other, probably less likely one is a bookstore
    > application (or maybe even the Digital Kiosk 2.0) that would provide
    > ordering and product information directly to the Campsite server, and
    > handle only the transaction.
    >
    > Out on the horizon a bit further into the future lies what Sava has
    > referred to as "the Supercontentor" - essentially a Campsite-like
    > application that would be at the core of a publication's print
    production.
    > Many of the NewsML tags would probably find more use in that situation,
    > but we'll have to take that as it comes.
    >
    >
    > Hope this helps,
    >
    > doug
    >
    > =============================================
    > Media Development Loan Fund
    > =============================================
    > Douglas Arellanes
    > Head of Research and Development
    > Center for Advanced Media--Prague (CAMP)
    > Na vinicnich horach 24a/1834, 160 00 Prague 6
    > Czech Republic
    > Tel: + 420 2 3333 5356, Fax: +420 2 2431 5419
    > Mobile: +420 724 073 364
    > http://www.mdlf-camp.net
    > http://www.campware.org
    > =============================================
    > http://www.mdlf.org
    > =============================================
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Paul Baranowski
    > 07/05/2004 07:14 PM
    > Please respond to campsite-dev
    >
    >
    > To: campsite-dev@campware.org
    > cc:
    > Subject: Re: [campsite-dev] Which format to use?
    >
    >
    > The feature that I am developing is for import of articles. You might
    be
    > thinking of article export from your comments below - for example, XSLT
    > only helps us for article export. RSS 0.91 and 2.0 do not support
    > content, so it cannot be used for article import. We could use the
    > optional mod_content tag for RSS and use that for article import if we
    > wanted, but I'm not sure how well this is supported. The new
    "enclosure"
    > tag in RSS 2.0 only points to external files, and does not contain data
    > itself.
    >
    > If anyone can provide me with more use case scenarios, it would greatly
    > help the development of this feature. As far as I know, there are two:
    > 1) Someone types up an article in the required format, or uses some sort

    > of software that automatically creates the format, and then uploads the
    > article to the server.
    > 2) The campsite server reads a feed from another server and adds the
    > articles to its database.
    >
    > Under scenario #1, NewsML might be an incredibly daunting format for our

    > users if they are typing it in by hand. That's why we were thinking of
    > Atom - a very simple format that can be written by hand and is being
    > actively developed.
    >
    > I understand that the feature should not be tied to a particular format,

    > and the code will be written so that new formats can be implemented
    later.
    >
    >
    > - Paul
    >
    >
    >
    > Douglas.Arellanes@mdlf.org wrote:
    >
    > Hi folks,
    >
    > I'd say the formats, in order of their importance, are:
    >
    > 1) NewsML (yes, it is overkill in terms of the number of possible
    metadata
    > tags, but it is also the most comprehensive for professional news work
    >
    > 2) RSS 2.0 (more flexible, and the tag will mean some
    > interesting things in the future)
    >
    > 3) RSS 0.91 (most widespread support. As John put it, the Lingua Franca
    of
    > syndication)
    >
    > 4) Atom (up-and-coming, but as far as I can tell, uptake is limited to
    the
    > Blogger A-list; we should support it, but the question is whether it
    needs
    > to be there for 2.2 or if it can wait)
    >
    > I like John's idea of using XSLT to transform the feeds into whatever we

    > need; I'm not a developer (I just shake people's hands and hand out
    > business cards), but I'd bet there will be more of these syndication
    > formats to come, and if we can build flexibility into our architecture
    as
    > opposed to "hard-wiring" support for one format or another, I'd say
    we're
    > better off.
    >
    > doug
    >
    >
    >




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    I'd still hold out for NewsML, but we'll need to get Sava's approval on Monday for the final go-ahead.



    doug











    Mugur Rus <mugur1973@yahoo.com>

    07/07/2004 04:42 PM

    Please respond to campsite-dev


           

            To:        campsite-dev@campware.org

            cc:        

            Subject:        Re: [campsite-dev] Which format to use?






    Hi all,



    It seems to me that NewsML would be much more useful than Atom but the issue is

    Paul needs about a month to implement the feature + the Atom filter. If you

    want the NewsML filter implemented first the deadline should be postponed and

    Paul should let us know how much.



    Mugur



    --- Douglas.Arellanes@mdlf.org wrote:

    > Hi Paul,

    >

    > I understand your question, and will try to give you a bit more feedback

    > on the usage.

    >

    > 1) Manual input is kind of misleading because the vast majority of people

    > will never actually create an article for automatic input "by hand," and

    > will most likely use a Word macro (or its OpenOffice equivalent) to

    > prepare their text, provided they use a template that is pre-formatted for

    > them.

    >

    > 2) Article syndication will first be used in the SNOW project, where we

    > know a few things about the users and their Campsite instances; because we

    > are operating their hosting, we are in control of the Campsite version and

    > all aspects of the server instance. While this may not be a huge

    > advantage, we do know that the sites won't be using non-standard Campsite

    > fields.

    >

    > 3) The issue of non-standard fields is one that may present problems for

    > any of the syndication interchange formats. How will a user map the fields

    > they have installed (and call from all their templates) to match the input

    > coming from the syndication format, be it NewsML or Atom or whatever? I

    > don't have a problem with Atom as our interchange format of choice, but I

    > would much rather see us come up with a solution that is format-neutral

    > when it comes to interchange. If Atom provides the best fit with standard

    > Campsite fields, so be it. But ideally, what we come up with would be

    > flexible enough to use any of the popular interchange formats. Besides, as

    > I understand it, none of these formats map perfectly, so some shoehorning

    > will be necessary.

    >

    > 4) The use scenario I have in mind is this: I would like to see Campsite

    > provide integration with weblogs. Let's say a news site like TOL finds a

    > weblogger they think is interesting, and want to syndicate their content.

    > The problem is that the content as it's written on their weblog is too

    > local and needs rewriting for TOL's audience. Because the content from the

    > weblog is integrated into Campsite workflow - and I'm being deliberately

    > vague on the mechanics of how this is done - editors can work on the text

    > just as with any other "submitted" article. For me, what's key is that all

    > of the content make it into Campsite.

    >

    > NewsML input is important because a couple of different clients have

    > discussed the possibility of connecting their Campsites to a Reuters feed,

    > which comes in NewsML. In this scenario, the incoming article would

    > probably be marked automatically as "Published" and go straight out on to

    > the site, otherwise the list of submitted articles would probably be too

    > big.

    >

    > Other use scenarios that don't fit the typical article paradigm but could

    > turn into important ones would be in commercial content: there are two

    > uses that come to mind: one is classified ads (personals, job listings,

    > real estate listings) that are created by a central site and carried by a

    > number of sites, and the other, probably less likely one is a bookstore

    > application (or maybe even the Digital Kiosk 2.0) that would provide

    > ordering and product information directly to the Campsite server, and

    > handle only the transaction.

    >

    > Out on the horizon a bit further into the future lies what Sava has

    > referred to as "the Supercontentor" - essentially a Campsite-like

    > application that would be at the core of a publication's print production.

    > Many of the NewsML tags would probably find more use in that situation,

    > but we'll have to take that as it comes.

    >

    >

    > Hope this helps,

    >

    > doug

    >

    > =============================================

    > Media Development Loan Fund


    > =============================================

    > Douglas Arellanes

    > Head of Research and Development

    > Center for Advanced Media--Prague (CAMP)

    > Na vinicnich horach 24a/1834, 160 00  Prague 6

    > Czech Republic

    > Tel: + 420 2 3333 5356, Fax: +420 2 2431 5419

    > Mobile: +420 724 073 364

    > http://www.mdlf-camp.net

    > http://www.campware.org

    > =============================================

    > http://www.mdlf.org

    > =============================================

    >

    >

    >

    >

    > Paul Baranowski <paul@paulbaranowski.org>

    > 07/05/2004 07:14 PM

    > Please respond to campsite-dev

    >

    >  

    >         To:     campsite-dev@campware.org

    >         cc:

    >         Subject:        Re: [campsite-dev] Which format to use?

    >

    >

    > The feature that I am developing is for import of articles.  You might be

    > thinking of article export from your comments below - for example, XSLT

    > only helps us for article export.  RSS 0.91 and 2.0 do not support

    > content, so it cannot be used for article import.  We could use the

    > optional mod_content tag for RSS and use that for article import if we

    > wanted, but I'm not sure how well this is supported.  The new "enclosure"

    > tag in RSS 2.0 only points to external files, and does not contain data

    > itself.

    >

    > If anyone can provide me with more use case scenarios, it would greatly

    > help the development of this feature.  As far as I know, there are two:

    > 1) Someone types up an article in the required format, or uses some sort

    > of software that automatically creates the format, and then uploads the

    > article to the server.

    > 2) The campsite server reads a feed from another server and adds the

    > articles to its database.

    >

    > Under scenario #1, NewsML might be an incredibly daunting format for our

    > users if they are typing it in by hand.  That's why we were thinking of

    > Atom - a very simple format that can be written by hand and is being

    > actively developed.

    >

    > I understand that the feature should not be tied to a particular format,

    > and the code will be written so that new formats can be implemented later.

    >  

    >

    > - Paul

    >

    >

    >

    > Douglas.Arellanes@mdlf.org wrote:

    >

    > Hi folks,

    >

    > I'd say the formats, in order of their importance, are:

    >

    > 1) NewsML (yes, it is overkill in terms of the number of possible metadata

    > tags, but it is also the most comprehensive for professional news work

    >

    > 2) RSS 2.0 (more flexible, and the <enclosures> tag will mean some

    > interesting things in the future)

    >

    > 3) RSS 0.91 (most widespread support. As John put it, the Lingua Franca of

    > syndication)

    >

    > 4) Atom (up-and-coming, but as far as I can tell, uptake is limited to the

    > Blogger A-list; we should support it, but the question is whether it needs

    > to be there for 2.2 or if it can wait)

    >

    > I like John's idea of using XSLT to transform the feeds into whatever we

    > need; I'm not a developer (I just shake people's hands and hand out

    > business cards), but I'd bet there will be more of these syndication

    > formats to come, and if we can build flexibility into our architecture as

    > opposed to "hard-wiring" support for one format or another, I'd say we're

    > better off.

    >

    > doug

    >

    >

    >







                                     

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